AK late on

[GlasgowBandit]

Ahh well done Boldie your out!  U pushed and lost the big pot this is what you seem to do in the Stanley accumulate all the chips early and then boom! 

The flat call was the best option and then you get away from a bet on the flop.

[tantrum]

yes...and (if you don't see the BB drool over his cards) 95% of the time it's a push.

we have to agree to disagree.

I was writing the whole reply while ACE2M has posted his reply.

I stick with flat calling, as to compromise your tournament life to find out if your opponent has a better hand then you is -EV IMO

[boldie]

This happened last night in the first tournament i have played online for a few months, he was the only player who had me covered. I've got my finger on the all in raise button all the way but just before i did it i had a real strong feeling that it was a bad spot, i ignored my gut instinct and pushed, he called flipped aces and i exited.

I was thinking for a while about it last night trying to figure out what my subconcious had been so concerned about and i had ignored. It's definately a tricky spot and this is the umpteenth time i have regretted not listening to my instincts.

There was another really funky KK hand in the tournment but i will look it up in the hand histories when i get home and post it.

instinct is ever so important...as pointed out by tighty (I think) in a blog..but unlucky none the less....


lol @bandit...accumulate and then go out?..nah...I accumulate..then piss some away and then still manage to get paid or win it (that's the way it's been going last couple of times I played there.

my HU games online are messing up my tourney play, I have to admit.

But what would you have done if the K had come down on the flop and he bets it again (or checks it to you..making you think you're ahead and you then go all-in)

the guy had Aces so that's fair enough...the flatcall unless it's a low flop will do nothing for you. if you hit on the flop (unless 2K's come down) you are still screwed. (unless you could fold if you hit and then you shouldn't have been in the pot in the first place)

I reckon you made the right play at the wrong time ...that's all.

[SupaMonkey]

Ul, i still think your move was correct.

[tantrum]

But what would you have done if the K had come down on the flop and he bets it again (or checks it to you..making you think you're ahead and you then go all-in)

the guy had Aces so that's fair enough...the flatcall unless it's a low flop will do nothing for you. if you hit on the flop (unless 2K's come down) you are still screwed. (unless you could fold if you hit and then you shouldn't have been in the pot in the first place)

I reckon you made the right play at the wrong time ...that's all.

The top pair and big kicker is another way to go out of the tourney if your reads are not correct.  

At this stage, and providing that you are against good players and you are good at reading your opponents seeing the flop is a better option.  If  bet and he comes over the top then you fold, if you check and he bets, you can also let go your hand if not connected.   Why would you go all in with top pair anyway?

It is a tournament after all and with his chip stack he doesn't need to push the button yet. 

[boldie]

But what would you have done if the K had come down on the flop and he bets it again (or checks it to you..making you think you're ahead and you then go all-in)

the guy had Aces so that's fair enough...the flatcall unless it's a low flop will do nothing for you. if you hit on the flop (unless 2K's come down) you are still screwed. (unless you could fold if you hit and then you shouldn't have been in the pot in the first place)

I reckon you made the right play at the wrong time ...that's all.

The top pair and big kicker is another way to go out of the tourney if your reads are not correct.  

At this stage, and providing that you are against good players and you are good at reading your opponents seeing the flop is a better option.  If  bet and he comes over the top then you fold, if you check and he bets, you can also let go your hand if not connected.   Why would you go all in with top pair anyway?

It is a tournament after all and with his chip stack he doesn't need to push the button yet. 

ok..but he acts first so if you do hit your king and he checks what do you do on the flop? how much would you raise?

[ifm]

The best way to find out his holding is to reraise, the stacks are deep enough for you to stick in another 20k and see what he does.
I definitely wouldn't push with a stack this deep.

[Royal Flush]

I re-raise 20k more, then call if he pushes. If he just calls then i now have the initiative on the flop.

[Royal Flush]

actually..if the BB pushes and the raiser calls you decision is fairly simple...it's a fold every time in that situation for me. BB MUST have a hand to reraise a raise

 

That is the easiest push in the world.

[kinboshi]

actually..if the BB pushes and the raiser calls you decision is fairly simple...it's a fold every time in that situation for me. BB MUST have a hand to reraise a raise

 

That is the easiest push in the world.

I think I'm with you, but I'd appreciate your thinking behind that.  What hands do you put them on?

[boldie]

actually..if the BB pushes and the raiser calls you decision is fairly simple...it's a fold every time in that situation for me. BB MUST have a hand to reraise a raise

 

That is the easiest push in the world.

really? why? I am thinking that for the BB to push here he must have a hand as one of the two stacks will surely call. Especially if UTG +1 calls the BB's push one of them must be ahead of you.

You might be right of course but I'd like to know the reasoning behind pushing here.

[NoflopsHomer]

I re-raise 20k more, then call if he pushes. If he just calls then i now have the initiative on the flop.

[ACE2M]

I re-raise 20k more, then call if he pushes. If he just calls then i now have the initiative on the flop.

But your still not leaving yourself any chance to get away?

Are you potentialy check folding the flop? any bet you make at the flop commits you to it

[Royal Flush]

actually..if the BB pushes and the raiser calls you decision is fairly simple...it's a fold every time in that situation for me. BB MUST have a hand to re raise a raise

 

That is the easiest push in the world.

really? why? I am thinking that for the BB to push here he must have a hand as one of the two stacks will surely call. Especially if UTG +1 calls the BB's push one of them must be ahead of you.

You might be right of course but I'd like to know the reasoning behind pushing here.

OK so the BB was 32k on he is looking for a spot with his 11 BB's. He has a marginal hand like A9 or 55. He sees a LP raiser who is a big stack make it 12k, he knows that that range is quite wide. Now he sees another decent sized stack just flat call. Why would he just flat call, he doesn't have a powerhouse hand. Now the BB is looking at this pot, there are 2x 12k bets, 3k+1.5k in blinds and 1500 in ante's. So now he has a situation where there is 30k in the pot before it gets to him. He is already in the money and this is a great spot to gamble, the likely scenario is the original raiser passes for the 20k more leaving the non stellar hand on the button to call. That gives him a 74k pot with a good win %. The 2nd most likely scenario is that the original raiser re-raises to isolate, again a 74k pot. Although i admit this probably puts the BB in a worse position but thats ul when a LP raiser actually has a top hand.

So now lets imagine that we missplayed AK and actually flat called, now we have this re-pop from the BB and the orig raiser flat calls (presumably he is not to smart and wants to play a huge pot OOP) he so rarely has a hand there, we now re-pop with out AK destroying both players ranges. Happy days!

[Royal Flush]

Just realised we are SB, the same still applies.

I re-raise 20k more, then call if he pushes. If he just calls then i now have the initiative on the flop.

But your still not leaving yourself any chance to get away?

Are you potentialy check folding the flop? any bet you make at the flop commits you to it

Why do i want to get away from AK? I am pushing the flop.