AK late on

[ACE2M]

Just realised we are SB, the same still applies.

I re-raise 20k more, then call if he pushes. If he just calls then i now have the initiative on the flop.

But your still not leaving yourself any chance to get away?

Are you potentialy check folding the flop? any bet you make at the flop commits you to it

Why do i want to get away from AK? I am pushing the flop.

So you're going busto with AK at this stage of the tournemnt with fairly deep stacks whatever?

[Royal Flush]

Just realised we are SB, the same still applies.

I re-raise 20k more, then call if he pushes. If he just calls then i now have the initiative on the flop.

But your still not leaving yourself any chance to get away?

Are you potentialy check folding the flop? any bet you make at the flop commits you to it

Why do i want to get away from AK? I am pushing the flop.

So you're going busto with AK at this stage of the tournemnt with fairly deep stacks whatever?

When i have 20 BB i am happy to go bust with AK.

[boldie]

Just realised we are SB, the same still applies.

I re-raise 20k more, then call if he pushes. If he just calls then i now have the initiative on the flop.

But your still not leaving yourself any chance to get away?

Are you potentialy check folding the flop? any bet you make at the flop commits you to it

Why do i want to get away from AK? I am pushing the flop.

So you're going busto with AK at this stage of the tournemnt with fairly deep stacks whatever?

When i have 20 BB i am happy to go bust with AK.

then why not push pre-flop?

[boldie]

actually..if the BB pushes and the raiser calls you decision is fairly simple...it's a fold every time in that situation for me. BB MUST have a hand to re raise a raise

 

That is the easiest push in the world.

really? why? I am thinking that for the BB to push here he must have a hand as one of the two stacks will surely call. Especially if UTG +1 calls the BB's push one of them must be ahead of you.

You might be right of course but I'd like to know the reasoning behind pushing here.

OK so the BB was 32k on he is looking for a spot with his 11 BB's. He has a marginal hand like A9 or 55. He sees a LP raiser who is a big stack make it 12k, he knows that that range is quite wide. Now he sees another decent sized stack just flat call. Why would he just flat call, he doesn't have a powerhouse hand. Now the BB is looking at this pot, there are 2x 12k bets, 3k+1.5k in blinds and 1500 in ante's. So now he has a situation where there is 30k in the pot before it gets to him. He is already in the money and this is a great spot to gamble, the likely scenario is the original raiser passes for the 20k more leaving the non stellar hand on the button to call. That gives him a 74k pot with a good win %. The 2nd most likely scenario is that the original raiser re-raises to isolate, again a 74k pot. Although i admit this probably puts the BB in a worse position but thats ul when a LP raiser actually has a top hand.

So now lets imagine that we missplayed AK and actually flat called, now we have this re-pop from the BB and the orig raiser flat calls (presumably he is not to smart and wants to play a huge pot OOP) he so rarely has a hand there, we now re-pop with out AK destroying both players ranges. Happy days!

ok I get that BB could push in this situation also thinking he could double up or atleast get a bit out of it.

but, as you said in your following post, the raiser is an early position raiser..doesn't that change BB's reasoning? and if Early position raiser then calls surely you have to be behind (as he is still inviting you to push when you're in the pot...if he pushed after BB's raise he would more then likely be trying to isolate BB..)

[Rookie (Rodney)]

Boldie, overbet much? - spring to mind?

[Royal Flush]

Just realised we are SB, the same still applies.

I re-raise 20k more, then call if he pushes. If he just calls then i now have the initiative on the flop.

But your still not leaving yourself any chance to get away?

Are you potentialy check folding the flop? any bet you make at the flop commits you to it

Why do i want to get away from AK? I am pushing the flop.

So you're going busto with AK at this stage of the tournemnt with fairly deep stacks whatever?

When i have 20 BB i am happy to go bust with AK.

then why not push pre-flop?

Because to me that looks like AK. If i re-raise less i think i can convince JJ/TT that they might be behind. My main goal here is to get a fold.

[Royal Flush]

actually..if the BB pushes and the raiser calls you decision is fairly simple...it's a fold every time in that situation for me. BB MUST have a hand to re raise a raise

 

That is the easiest push in the world.

really? why? I am thinking that for the BB to push here he must have a hand as one of the two stacks will surely call. Especially if UTG +1 calls the BB's push one of them must be ahead of you.

You might be right of course but I'd like to know the reasoning behind pushing here.

OK so the BB was 32k on he is looking for a spot with his 11 BB's. He has a marginal hand like A9 or 55. He sees a LP raiser who is a big stack make it 12k, he knows that that range is quite wide. Now he sees another decent sized stack just flat call. Why would he just flat call, he doesn't have a powerhouse hand. Now the BB is looking at this pot, there are 2x 12k bets, 3k+1.5k in blinds and 1500 in ante's. So now he has a situation where there is 30k in the pot before it gets to him. He is already in the money and this is a great spot to gamble, the likely scenario is the original raiser passes for the 20k more leaving the non stellar hand on the button to call. That gives him a 74k pot with a good win %. The 2nd most likely scenario is that the original raiser re-raises to isolate, again a 74k pot. Although i admit this probably puts the BB in a worse position but thats ul when a LP raiser actually has a top hand.

So now lets imagine that we missplayed AK and actually flat called, now we have this re-pop from the BB and the orig raiser flat calls (presumably he is not to smart and wants to play a huge pot OOP) he so rarely has a hand there, we now re-pop with out AK destroying both players ranges. Happy days!

ok I get that BB could push in this situation also thinking he could double up or atleast get a bit out of it.

but, as you said in your following post, the raiser is an early position raiser..doesn't that change BB's reasoning? and if Early position raiser then calls surely you have to be behind (as he is still inviting you to push when you're in the pot...if he pushed after BB's raise he would more then likely be trying to isolate BB..)

We seem to have a mixup here, the raiser is the cutoff+1 (the hijack) that is late position, assuming this is a 10 handed table (30 left) if it is a 9 handed table then we are either 7 or 8 handed and again this makes our hand even stronger.

[SupaMonkey]

Because to me that looks like AK. If i re-raise less i think i can convince JJ/TT that they might be behind. My main goal here is to get a fold.

Do you think your resteal on the previous round is going to be a factor here. I think your 20k raise will make this guy re-pop you.




I don't think we are deep stacked here, we have 85k and it costs us 6k a round.

Btw, i'm still  Good debate though.

[booder]

standard fold

[boldie]

We seem to have a mixup here, the raiser is the cutoff+1 (the hijack) that is late position, assuming this is a 10 handed table (30 left) if it is a 9 handed table then we are either 7 or 8 handed and again this makes our hand even stronger.

Ah...you are right of course flushy....my bad. I'd probably still push but I can see where you're coming from now.

I agree with supa...this is one of the best debates I have seen in the hand analysis.

[Royal Flush]

We seem to have a mixup here, the raiser is the cutoff+1 (the hijack) that is late position, assuming this is a 10 handed table (30 left) if it is a 9 handed table then we are either 7 or 8 handed and again this makes our hand even stronger.

Ah...you are right of course flushy....my bad. I'd probably still push but I can see where you're coming from now.

I agree with supa...this is one of the best debates I have seen in the hand analysis.

Pushing is not bad, it's just i don't want to give the guy a reason to make a hero call! I rarely find a push in that spot is AA/KK so he will value his JJ/TT much higher!

[tantrum]

With whole respect to all of the 'all in' supporters, you are looking at your cards and nothing else in this scenario. ACE2M has stated that he has executed the 'push move' before and the opponent folded.  If the opponent has any brain at all, nxt time he will raise ACE's blind, it will be a powerful hand, and the opponent will hope that ACE2M will push with AK/AQ/KQ and so on.  Perfect set up.  I don't think that ACE got unlucky here, as he did not have to go broke on this hand in the first place. And the fact that he sayd he had a 'gut feeling' must be a result of the previous actions of this player prior this hand.  With his stack he is able to find out by not going all in; if this is another steal or genuine raise.

[SupaMonkey]

He thinks you might know this so he can make this move to try and pick up the pot with rags. However, once you push he knows you are capable of doing this on a bluff so he will call with a range much wider than KK+. In short, when you push he probably isn't expecting you to turn over AK imo. Hope that makes sense.

[Pab]

I got a pm about this thread asking for my opinion on the hand, i would have shoved and ill give my reasons when i wake up tomorrow as im v tired and still a little hungover at the moment, :-)

[SupaMonkey]

I got a pm about this thread asking for my opinion on the hand, i would have shoved and ill give my reasons when i wake up tomorrow as im v tired and still a little hungover at the moment, :-)

Talk about showing a kid sweets...