NON POKER: Svengland's nightmare

[TightEnd]

It has often been said, by Alan Hansen most notably, that an international team needs a minimum of six world class players to be able to win the World Cup

Looking at the current England team we have, im my opinion


World Class

Rooney
Owen
Beckham
Gerrard
Lampard (though he looks burnt out, short term)
A Cole

Debateable

Ferdinand
Campbell
Terry

Too Early/Not World Class

Robinson
G Neville/Young etc
J Cole
Wright Phillips
Carragher (though v good and great squad player)

Theoretically therefore this is a team that should be capable of going the whole way

However the players are complacent, in some cases show poor temperament, and in some cases lack the intelligence (it seems) to follow their managers instructions

The manager and his team do not seem to motivate his players, and changes tactics on a whim


The whole set up seems wrong to me


eg You want to play Wright Phillips but don't want to drop Beckham
     So you change your system to put Beckham into the centre
     But you don't want to drop Gerrard/Lampard, so Beckham has to play in front of back four
     Then when Owen comes back you can't not play Rooney, who ends up playing wide left

Sweet Jesus!

Pick 4-4-2
Pick your best 11 for that sytem
Stick with it

If that means not playing certain players, so be it


Finally, someone change the unwritten rule that requires, whatever the score, whatever the situation, whoever is injured, that Owen Hargreaves comes on as substitute. Sven might as well bring himself on. After all, he has successful form at playing away and scoring.


Your thoughts,Ladies and Gentlemen, are appreciated

[snoopy1239]

Finally, someone change the unwritten rule that requires, whatever the score, whatever the situation, whoever is injured, that Owen Hargreaves comes on as substitute. Sven might as well bring himself on. After all, he has successful form at playing away and scoring.


Your thoughts,Ladies and Gentlemen, are appreciated

lol - Hargreaves is such a Phillip Neville type player. - not quite as hiddeous tho.


The team needs more Villa players. 

[AndrewT]

There is a general problem in international football at the moment which is any half-decent manager can take a bunch of mediocre players, give them a system which says 'get behind the ball and frustrate the opposition' and watch them stifle the 'big' teams through good organisation (this is how Greece won Euro 2004).

The problem the 'big' teams have is that the smaller teams are proving more difficult to break down, managers are having a hard time coming up with 'systems' to counteract this. What not many of them realise is that these games are won through moments of individual brilliance, not solid teamwork. This is why Brazil hardly ever have any problems against smaller teams - they have a squad full of flair and creativity, and the manager simply picks 11 players, tells them to go out and be Brazilian, and watches from the dugout, smoking a cigar, whilst his team unlock the opposition.

Sven is too hung up on his systems (and, crucially, the press are as well, compounding the problem). What England are missing is a Claude Makelele - someone who will sit in front of the back four and deal with any problems. This gives the attacking players more free rein to try things out without worrying too much about it going wrong - it gives them the freedom to experiment. They don't have to worry about the system.  Sven is frustrated by the fact that hardly any English player plays in this position for his club.

[TightEnd]

Sven is frustrated by the fact that hardly any English player plays in this position for his club.

Nice post.

It does not excuse putting square pegs in round holes like Sven does though

Of course, a certain team buying Scott Parker and having him languish in the reserves for a year behind Makelele before shipping him on, retarding his development, does not help the search for a midfielder of that type

[The Baron]

It is a pickle no doubt about it. I think we HAVE to have two strikers so 4-4-2 is my pick also. (Owen - Rooney)

Hargreaves has done exceptionally well for Bayern this season so I undertsand him as a squad player.

SWP has to play on the right. If this means dropping Becks so be it. SWP has been our best player in the last 2 games but come off twice!? Sven is having an affair with Beckham I swear.

I'm sure when Gerrard and Lamps are fit/on form they will tear teams apart so they're my centre two. I dont think we NEED a holding midfield player. Gerrard and Lamps can both defend but more importantly with those two we should be hammering teams eighty-eight nil.

Left, either J Cole or Downing if he becomes a bit more consistant. J Cole for the time being.

Big Sol is my only worry. Was world class in the last two major international comps he played in but maybe a little past it? Terry/Carragher are good enough though.

[Royal Flush]

World Class

Rooney
Owen
Beckham
Gerrard
Lampard (though he looks burnt out, short term)
A Cole

I do like a good joke in the afternoon.

[AdamM]

looks reasonable to me, and in the 'debatable' section i'd be backing Ferdinand and Tery too.

[Royal Flush]

Terry i would say is world class.

Owen eerrr me thinks not.

Rooney could well be.

Beckahm, hmmmm.

Gerrard, like Beckham, excellent but not world class.

Lampard, awsome i would say he is world class.

Cole, i just dont see it.


And before anyone says, no i am not a Chelsea fan.

[snoopy1239]

Terry i would say is world class.

Owen eerrr me thinks not.

Rooney could well be.

Beckahm, hmmmm.

Gerrard, like Beckham, excellent but not world class.

Lampard, awsome i would say he is world class.

Cole, i just dont see it.


And before anyone says, no i am not a Chelsea fan.

world class on paper

[snoopy1239]

pity it's toilet paper

[AdamM]

sorry, I disagree, I think the whole list are top draw. plus Ferdinand and Terry too.

More effective international / league arrangement is whats holding us back, not the quality of the team/squad there needs to be regular team get togethers without there necessarily being a match to play like Brazil do.

[Ironside]

i think wayne bridge is better than cole

[ifm]

It needs a new manager full stop.
The guy's a joke, he can't even use friendlies to try new things, just throws on body after body for no reason. So much so FIFA changed the rules to prevent it!!
Come on having 4 England captains in one game is pathetic.
Michael Owen is the best striker on the planet when the ball is played for him to run onto, into feet he's useless.
Beckham is the best crosser of the ball on the planet, so he must be out wide.
Rooney, well he has much to learn.
Never liked Gerrard, though a good pal of mine is his best mate (we all had a fortune on him re-signing for Liverpool )
Lampard is ok holding in midfield.
Neville is by quite some distance the worst player to play for England ever, how much did they pay for him??
Didn't wanna get involved in this thread, it gets me too worked up

[snoopy1239]

It needs a new manager full stop.
The guy's a joke, he can't even use friendlies to try new things, just throws on body after body for no reason. So much so FIFA changed the rules to prevent it!!
Come on having 4 England captains in one game is pathetic.
Michael Owen is the best striker on the planet when the ball is played for him to run onto, into feet he's useless.
Beckham is the best crosser of the ball on the planet, so he must be out wide.
Rooney, well he has much to learn.
Never liked Gerrard, though a good pal of mine is his best mate (we all had a fortune on him re-signing for Liverpool )
Lampard is ok holding in midfield.
Neville is by quite some distance the worst player to play for England ever, how much did they pay for him??
Didn't wanna get involved in this thread, it gets me too worked up

deep breaths Ian. 

[graeme]

As a Scot I always find it rather amusing when English people complain about their football team. IMO the problem is the level of expectation: English fans and the media demand that their team wins whenever they step on to the pitch and if they don't cue the condemnation. Trouble is sport isn't an exact science; it's played by human beings (Wayne Rooney the obvious exception) and human beings make mistakes. Relax. England will qualify and probably do very well, although I don't think they quite have the class to win it. At least your cricket team's pretty decent: 289-5. The Aussies are going down!