No Hello, just P4C.

[thetank]

Someone had a very good idea on the other P4C thread. The original purpose for it had been served, and for this reason, there was an indication P4C were not going to answer any more querys on that thread.

Well here's a new thread....

Regarding the 70% administrative costs of Poker4Charity/Game4Life.

The primary thing that seems to be aired by those speaking for P4C at the moment is to blame the UK poker players for not having donated enough.

My problem with that is that it's not too constructive, and as someone who's organized a P4C tournament locally for no expenses, doing an expense-less sponsored STT drive for P4C, attending tournaments run by P4C in Scotland, England, Ireland and Wales, as well as making considerable other personal doantions to P4C, that argument just isn't going to wash.

I could have done more if I sold all my clothes, but maybe I'm just selfish like that.

The other main argument, that some good work was done and we should be happy with this, that won't work with me either. When they were given enough money to do three times as much stuff, when it is me and my friends who have been giving a lot of this money, we are within our rights to demand answers surely?



My questions.....

Are P4C taking this seriously, or do they just feel as if people are attacking them for the sake of strange-ass vindictiveness?

What (if anything) are P4C intending to do about it next year? What are they going to do to ensure that more than 30p in the pound, raised and donated by volunteers, goes to the kids in need of it?


Anyone else got questions?
Anyone got suggestions as to how to go about fixing this?
Anyone got any answers?*

*I understand the charity's one full-time employee is seriously ill at the moment. I'm not demanding answers from him. One would think any serious rescaling or restructuring in an attempt to fix these issues would be down to the trustees, and it is to them that I address the answers thing.
Or to anyone who reads the P4C site, if P4C announce anything relevant there, for someone to copy it here.

[TightEnd]

as its been two years of 30% in the £ donations, then I think change would be sensible

Until such time as the chairty has sufficient scale to absorb costs without dramatically affecting donation levels then I would suggest downsizing the costlier areas like live events and concentrate instead on online events, smaller scale fund raising efforts and then build up to live events in time

I would welcome transparency on the breakdown of admin and other costs, which I assume is in the recently filed accounts, as was stated repeatedly on the other thread


I post as a P4C platinum member, and donator at live events previoulsy

I'd like to support the charity again, but currently feel unable to do so until I see change that would enable my donation to substantially reach the causes for which I intend to give.

[TightEnd]

I would also hope that in future P4C people and volunteers do not claim expenses for attending events where those expenses take from the net sum given to the good causes.

The whole thing needs, IMHO, to resemble a volunteer led organisation rather than a trading company.

[daveymck]

I would also hope that in future P4C people and volunteers do not claim expenses for attending events where those expenses take from the net sum given to the good causes.

I do think this part is an unrealistic thing to expect, if people are volunteering their time its not unreasonable to expect to be reimbursed for travel etc.  Whether its deducted from the money at the event or other dontations then these expenses have to be met.  Its more managing the volunteers to keep those costs down eg having Newcastle based people run the Newcastle event so accommodation isnt required etc.  I also suspect that expenses are not the bulk of the costs incurred.

There are always going to be some costs and overheads to fundraise and those costs always have to be met from monies raised, I think thats a bit of niavity people have around charities (as was shown in the other thread), I think even big events like Children in Need have huge costs (3 miilion quid I think) and someone has to meet them.  Even Hospices (I did the accounts for our local one for a time) have to pay money to raise money (they had a lottery officer who was paid to grow that element of the business) and had overheads like shop rental etc.

I suspect though that unfortunatley this is the end for P4C, a charity needs goodwill to operate and I suspect this incident and the revelations of the costs will put off a lot of people volunteering or wishing to participate in events, unless they demonstrate a real change in the cost base or fund raising strategy. 

To a point I do hope I am wrong as there are organizations that could do with the money they could generate, Hopices in particular cry out for funding as they have to generate a lot of cash each year to keep providing the wonderful service they do.

[TightEnd]

I would also hope that in future P4C people and volunteers do not claim expenses for attending events where those expenses take from the net sum given to the good causes.

I do think this part is an unrealistic thing to expect, if people are volunteering their time its not unreasonable to expect to be reimbursed for travel etc.  Whether its deducted from the money at the event or other dontations then these expenses have to be met.  Its more managing the volunteers to keep those costs down eg having Newcastle based people run the Newcastle event so accommodation isnt required etc.  I also suspect that expenses are not the bulk of the costs incurred.

There are always going to be some costs and overheads to fundraise and those costs always have to be met from monies raised, I think thats a bit of niavity people have around charities (as was shown in the other thread), I think even big events like Children in Need have huge costs (3 miilion quid I think) and someone has to meet them.  Even Hospices (I did the accounts for our local one for a time) have to pay money to raise money (they had a lottery officer who was paid to grow that element of the business) and had overheads like shop rental etc.

I suspect though that unfortunatley this is the end for P4C, a charity needs goodwill to operate and I suspect this incident and the revelations of the costs will put off a lot of people volunteering or wishing to participate in events, unless they demonstrate a real change in the cost base or fund raising strategy. 

To a point I do hope I am wrong as there are organizations that could do with the money they could generate, Hopices in particular cry out for funding as they have to generate a lot of cash each year to keep providing the wonderful service they do.

you make some good points, perhaps I should have said keep expenses to an absolute minimum. Of course some expenses incurred in running any organisation are inevitable.

[thetank]

I suspect though that unfortunatley this is the end for P4C, a charity needs goodwill to operate and I suspect this incident and the revelations of the costs will put off a lot of people volunteering or wishing to participate in events, unless they demonstrate a real change in the cost base or fund raising strategy. 

To a point I do hope I am wrong as there are organizations that could do with the money they could generate, Hopices in particular cry out for funding as they have to generate a lot of cash each year to keep providing the wonderful service they do.

In that event, the end of P4C doesn't mean the end of UK poker players working for childrens charities.

If another organisation steps in to fill the gap, if they are more efficient, then this whole thing needn't be unfortunate. It'll be quite the opposite.


Not saying the charity definately should disband. The point you raise though, about the goodwill or lack of thereof. I think that option is worthy of consideration.

[tantrum]

There are always going to be some costs and overheads to fundraise and those costs always have to be met from monies raised,

not in the ratio of 70% vs 30% going to the cause.

[TightEnd]

I think that is universally accepted....

[roverthtaeh]

Personally, if I am to donate £10 to a charity and £7 of it is being spent on overheads and costs, then I would like to know exactly where that £7 goes, down to the very last penny.
Only then will I consider donating.
I don't think that's an unreasonable request from someone who is handing money over.

[the-oneeye]

As it happens trevor the last £10 you donated mate 100% has gone straight to the good causes

[Ironside]

keeping costs to a minimium should be high on the cards for any charity so that the maximium amount of money raised can goto good causes

keeping volunteers local at live events will help
as will insuring costs of travel for trustee meetings are miniumised by using technolgy
wages should be offered as a % of money raised with a cap on it

ALL EXPENSES should be made public
so tha people donating know exactly where every penny is going

[AlrightJack]

£1,860 donated on the day

£1,100 paid out to good causes on the day

£925.40 in expenses

Total collected = 1,860
Total paid out = £2,025.40

£165.40 more paid out than collected.

[Trace]

This matter is now no longer 'Blonde only business' and we would appreciate it if you would refrain from copying P4C accounts to this site.

Could these details please be deleted.

It is part of the T&C's of the site NOT to copy any content.

All are welcome to view these accounts on the P4C website.

Thank you.


EDIT:   Thank you James.
            Jonathan could you please also delete your post.  Thanks.

[tigscoco]

Buffet costs £316


Were the sausage rolls nice?

[sofa----king]

i was asked nicely to take down my last post as i was told it was not in the terms and conditions of p4c to post them this was from a p4c administator.