Situation I have trouble with

[doubleup]

How would you play the turn here?  Would you have played the flop differently?

Seat 1: BB villain (£1163 in chips)
Seat 2: player 1 (£1895 in chips)
Seat 3: Me (£1139 in chips)
Seat 4: player 2(£793 in chips)
Seat 6: SB (£989 in chips)


dealt to me [ ]
player 1: folds
me: raises to £40
player2: folds
SB: folds
villain: calls £30
----- FLOP ----- [ ]


villain: checks
me: bets £60
villain: raises to £120
me: calls £60
----- TURN ----- [ ][]

villain bets £170

me raises to ??

How do you get the best value when you have a good hand, but not the nuts and are up against a wide range of holdings?  While also protecting your hand against a draw (if not already beaten)

[ifm]

Personally i am in the school of thought that the odds of set v set are so high i tend to discount it, so i am thinking he has the worse hand and is betting into the nuts. (on the turn).

So he has either AX or a big draw and i don't want to lose him on the flop so i bet weak too, obviously he only hits the turn with J10 so i need to BET FIRST to see just how much he likes his hand (i am not fond of the check raise at all, it can be VERY expensive).

So i fire the turn around 150-200.

[elblondie]

The way you describe it, the Villain is first to act and does so. I may just move all-in in the hope he thinks I am bluffing.
The board is 789 now and there are a lot of danger cards for the river, which will
a) allow him to outdraw you should he hold AJ or A10
b) freeze the action so that it goes check check...and you dont get your last 4 or 500 in
c) allows him to potentially bluff you

Move in and he will call should he have A9 or A8 or A7

[doubleup]

The way you describe it, the Villain is first to act and does so. I may just move all-in in the hope he thinks I am bluffing.
The board is 789 now and there are a lot of danger cards for the river, which will
a) allow him to outdraw you should he hold AJ or A10
b) freeze the action so that it goes check check...and you dont get your last 4 or 500 in
c) allows him to potentially bluff you

Move in and he will call should he have A9 or A8 or A7

Yes villain first to act. 

The problem that I have with moving in is that 2 very credible blind calling hands have just made a str8 (although he would prob have semi-bluffed more strongly with these). 

Balanced against this as you rightly point out there are some hands that he might call with and more importantly there are a lot of very bad rivers.

[snoopy1239]

The way you describe it, the Villain is first to act and does so. I may just move all-in in the hope he thinks I am bluffing.
The board is 789 now and there are a lot of danger cards for the river, which will
a) allow him to outdraw you should he hold AJ or A10
b) freeze the action so that it goes check check...and you dont get your last 4 or 500 in
c) allows him to potentially bluff you

Move in and he will call should he have A9 or A8 or A7

Yes villain first to act. 

The problem that I have with moving in is that 2 very credible blind calling hands have just made a str8 (although he would prob have semi-bluffed more strongly with these). 

Balanced against this as you rightly point out there are some hands that he might call with and more importantly there are a lot of very bad rivers.

Given that a set vs set is virtually unavoidable, I think the only hand you need worry about is J-T. Therefore, I tend to agree with Dave and, because of the amount of possible draws and the potential of either being bluffed off the River or it being checked down, would happily stick it all-in.

[Boba Fett]

When he check-raises you on the flop, why do you only call?

I think you either need to jam it here or call and then push the turn

[byronkincaid]

I'm scared of scare cards on a flop like this so I tend to try to get it in on the flop and then kick myself when they fold.

[doubleup]

When he check-raises you on the flop, why do you only call?

I am rather hoping that he has an ace and will improve on the turn.

Pushing the turn is prob the best but now and then villain is going to instacall with a str8 and is also going to fold anything less than 2pr and maybe sometimes fold that.

I'm putting £979 into a £370 pot when I go allin - that's quite a lot.  I just take shots at £10nl, but I doubt if I get called by the hands that I want called by, when I go allin.

Lets say he has a str8 10% of the time.  2pr 20% of the time.  just the ace 20%, and a draw that will hit 20% of the time with the rest.  %s not important - just thinking out loud.

There are 19 scare cards - some very scary so they're going to hit 40% of the time.

Going allin wld obv be best if i get called by 2pr - but I lose a lot when 2pr folds.  

So lets think about a hand like A6 - this will fold to the allin but what will it call?  If I make it 500 will he call?  Thats a mistake if he does which is what I want.   Downside is that I have to call the river if he hits so his mistake isn't that bad.  Maybe a bit more, 600 say and call any river - thoughts anyone?  What would you call 600 with?

[doubleup]

I'm scared of scare cards on a flop like this so I tend to try to get it in on the flop and then kick myself when they fold.

Yes Byron - I'm having this trouble myself - not getting full value out of these hands, hence this post although it's probably not the best example.

[ifm]

Personally i am in the school of thought that the odds of set v set are so high i tend to discount it, so i am thinking he has the worse hand and is betting into the nuts. (on the turn).

So he has either AX or a big draw and i don't want to lose him on the flop so i bet weak too, obviously he only hits the turn with J10 so i need to BET FIRST to see just how much he likes his hand (i am not fond of the check raise at all, it can be VERY expensive).

So i fire the turn around 150-200.

OK that looks daft now you altered the OP

[totalise]

I'm scared of scare cards on a flop like this so I tend to try to get it in on the flop and then kick myself when they fold.

what hands are gonna give you action later on in the hand that wont give you action if you put in the 3rd raise on the flop? Maybe you get an extra bet on the turn from a/x that you fold out on the flop, but you balance that with scare cards coming that stop hands stacking off on the turn that would get it in on the flop, and I think putting more money in on the flop is defo the best play here, I mean, the guy has gone for the check/minraise, hes either pretty strong or pretty weak, and if its the former you want it in now, and if its the latter, its not going in later (unless they outdraw you somehow)

[Royal Flush]

I'm putting £979 into a £370 pot when I go allin - that's quite a lot.  I just take shots at £10nl, but I doubt if I get called by the hands that I want called by, when I go allin.

I counted it as a raise of £809 into a £665 pot, seems fine to me!