QQ quandary

[Royal Flush]

the problem with raising QQ here is that you are effectively turning your hand into 2/7os, as the button limp is AA or a hand with potential, so limp along with QQ, and adhere to the no set no bet mantra. This is especially true if they guy has been raising the blinds frequently prior to this hand... why would he raise AA when he has a history of raising from the button?

Legend.

[Royal Flush]

Because the blinds very rarely raise with air here

 

[doubleup]

Because the blinds very rarely raise with air here

 

ok believe what you want to believe and start limping with 88 on the button in the late stages of a tourney.  I'll not bother thanks

[Royal Flush]

Because the blinds very rarely raise with air here

 

ok believe what you want to believe and start limping with 88 on the button in the late stages of a tourney.  I'll not bother thanks

Start? lol, in this spot i don't limp 88 but i do limp a lot of hands on the button deep in comps. I have quite a high re-raise frequency when the blinds raise aswell. Guess i know why it works now!

[boldie]

Because the blinds very rarely raise with air here

 

ok believe what you want to believe and start limping with 88 on the button in the late stages of a tourney.  I'll not bother thanks

Start? lol, in this spot i don't limp 88 but i do limp a lot of hands on the button deep in comps. I have quite a high re-raise frequency when the blinds raise aswell. Guess i know why it works now!

I can't believe I agree with Flushy again. If I limp on the button with any two cards and someone in the blinds decides to raise it I ussually try to reraise..it's amazing when you're deep into a comp how many times the blinds will fold their hand if they have enough chippies left to do so.

[doubleup]

"if they have enough chippies left to do so."

The whole point about the OPs hand is that the fold was a tough decision because he was very close to being commited.

[TightPaulFolds]

I raised 4000 chips because I was not alert to the danger of the limper. So many people just limp there but his style of play is not common online: very aggressive but in very specific situations, and supertight otherwise. A player like this is raising every single time with 88 on that button. In this ten-handed table, it's just him and the blinds. He's selective, so is losing blind money like everyone, this is his chance and he lets BOTH SB and  BB limp in with J4 to hit J on the flop for free? No way. A good solid player is a good solid player. Also, this good solid player also knows that online 80 percent of the time in the final stages, a tight small blind that puts in 4000 of his 15000 is calling an all-in raise. If the small-blind were stealing there he would go all-in. The button wants this call.

In future I would still raise the 4000, QQ is normally miles ahead 3-handed and probably fold to the all-in from the button if and only if its this type of player. If it's an aggressive dutch guy I'm calling faster than he can reach into his jacket pocket and shout 'rebuy'.

[TightPaulFolds]

the problem with raising QQ here is that you are effectively turning your hand into 2/7os, as the button limp is AA or a hand with potential, so limp along with QQ, and adhere to the no set no bet mantra. This is especially true if they guy has been raising the blinds frequently prior to this hand... why would he raise AA when he has a history of raising from the button?

Specifically because he has a history of raising from the button? If he raises it's just yet another steal, and someone makes a stand against such pilfery with QQ. What makes a thief suddenly want to limp in and, oh, surprise, push against a raise?
And personally, I'm looking to make a set with pairs up to Jacks, and even then at a push and probably long-handed. My Queens are good unless I see big action on overcards, etc., or strong evidence of AAKK preflop. Mannn, you guys is tiight, huh?

[johnbhoy76]

Those are some great posts, johnbhoy, and I agree with everything you say. 3 handed at this stage of the game there is just no way I am letting that BB in for free, or for that matter, the button. Although the button limp felt a bit odd in the general context of play, I actually wanted to take the pot preflop and put in a bet I figured would push off a limper, and I was going to be position-crippled throughout the hand, as you say.
What you say about late game button-limpers not necessarily being AA is of course totally correct. But looking at his distinctive pattern of play, which I tried to show in my original post, something was already wrong, limping is not his style. The reraise should have set off alarms.

I agree with what you are saying.

I was arguing that you did everything right up until the guy in the Button moves all in.

For me the debate starts at this point as to wether you should call the all in. Up until then I feel you did everything right.

I think calling the all in or folding is a 50/50 decision to be honest. In the heat of battle I think I would have called and then look back and think "what an idiot" in the cold light of day

[Royal Flush]

I've bookmarked this thread so every time i go through a bad run i can read it and remind myself that i do have an edge in tournaments afterall!

[TightPaulFolds]

I've bookmarked this thread so every time i go through a bad run i can read it and remind myself that i do have an edge in tournaments afterall!

Repeat this mantra over and over: I must go to Glasgow and play these people. I must bring lots of money. I must be the table LAG. I must go to Glasgow....
We might be tight, but it's not like we're laying down Kings

[Royal Flush]

I've bookmarked this thread so every time i go through a bad run i can read it and remind myself that i do have an edge in tournaments afterall!

Repeat this mantra over and over: I must go to Glasgow and play these people. I must bring lots of money. I must be the table LAG. I must go to Glasgow....
We might be tight, but it's not like we're laying down Kings

Just Queens

[TightPaulFolds]

You might take our Queens but you will never take our Freedom.

[TightPaulFolds]

I think you've converted me to the darkside, Royal. I don't even recognise my play any more.

     2holein1s is at seat 0 with 1445.
     jack 9 is at seat 1 with 15555.
     cbus72 is at seat 2 with 2680.
     ab-sane-mane is at seat 3 with 8380.
     AmigoSencillo is at seat 4 with 4400.
     hottotrott is at seat 7 with 9800.
     USukAtDis is at seat 8 with 5635.
     NEWHITE is at seat 9 with 5830.
     The button is at seat 0.
     
     jack 9 posts the small blind of 100.
     cbus72 posts the big blind of 200.

     2holein1s:  -- --
     jack 9:  -- --
     cbus72:  -- --
     ab-sane-mane:  -- --
     AmigoSencillo:  -- --
     hottotrott:  -- --
     USukAtDis: 
     NEWHITE:  -- --

Pre-flop:
 
          ab-sane-mane folds.   AmigoSencillo folds.   hottotrott
          folds.   USukAtDis raises to 400.   NEWHITE calls. 
          2holein1s folds.   jack 9 folds.   cbus72 folds.   

Flop (board: ):
 
          USukAtDis bets 200.   NEWHITE calls.   

Turn (board: ):
 
          USukAtDis bets 1500.   NEWHITE folds.   USukAtDis is
          returned 1500 (uncalled).   

         

Hand #39018313-110 Summary:
 
     No rake is taken for this hand.
     USukAtDis wins 1500.

[Royal Flush]

I think you've converted me to the darkside, Royal. I don't even recognise my play any more.

     2holein1s is at seat 0 with 1445.
     jack 9 is at seat 1 with 15555.
     cbus72 is at seat 2 with 2680.
     ab-sane-mane is at seat 3 with 8380.
     AmigoSencillo is at seat 4 with 4400.
     hottotrott is at seat 7 with 9800.
     USukAtDis is at seat 8 with 5635.
     NEWHITE is at seat 9 with 5830.
     The button is at seat 0.
     
     jack 9 posts the small blind of 100.
     cbus72 posts the big blind of 200.

     2holein1s:  -- --
     jack 9:  -- --
     cbus72:  -- --
     ab-sane-mane:  -- --
     AmigoSencillo:  -- --
     hottotrott:  -- --
     USukAtDis: 
     NEWHITE:  -- --

Pre-flop:
 
          ab-sane-mane folds.   AmigoSencillo folds.   hottotrott
          folds.   USukAtDis raises to 400.   NEWHITE calls. 
          2holein1s folds.   jack 9 folds.   cbus72 folds.   

Flop (board: ):
 
          USukAtDis bets 200.   NEWHITE calls.   

Turn (board: ):
 
          USukAtDis bets 1500.   NEWHITE folds.   USukAtDis is
          returned 1500 (uncalled).   

         

Hand #39018313-110 Summary:
 
     No rake is taken for this hand.
     USukAtDis wins 1500.

I hope you dont play for a living.