Ivey the hustler?

[Karabiner]

principal for me not stakes. If someone cheated me for a fiver I would be just as offended as if someone cheated me out of 10k. The fact Ivey lost a few hundred grand last year is irrelevant as he could have won that back in one round by being honest. If they had lost 1/2 million and Ivey had told the truth when asked a simple question they would've paid without a problem.

If it had been the first time that they had played I would agree, but not in this instance IMO.

[Dubai]

100% pay up. If they aint got it, they owe it.

How u think they won so much in the first place? By playing off "fair" handicap marks? No. They played off agreed handicap marks which is exactly how they won so much and now they lost it.

[quantify]

1. running a horse without \ny weight

2. boxing with knuckledusters

3, playing football with 12 men

4. taking drugs as an athlete

5. keepin aces up yer sleeve

6.thieving ,

7 taking drugs

8 cheating at golf  is the worst of the lot

[KingPoker]

I personally think Number 4 is the worst!

[The Camel]

If someone I trusted and respected did this to me (for much smaller stakes obviously).. I would be very very annoyued and disappointed. But I think I would pay. And never play them again.

Obviously the exact tone of the conversation before they started is crucial. But, if Ivey really was cheating, wouldn't he disguise just how good he had become in order to win alot of the next few games?

Maybe he just was having the round of his life. I virtually never broke 100 at golf. Then one day on a decent full size course I went round in 85, making 3 birdies!

[kinboshi]

I personally think Number 4 is the worst!

Boxing with knuckledusters is pretty bad too, especially if you're the other fighter...

[marcro]

100% pay up. If they aint got it, they owe it.

How u think they won so much in the first place? By playing off "fair" handicap marks? No. They played off agreed handicap marks which is exactly how they won so much and now they lost it.

Agreed.  They should pay and recognise they were hustled and get on with it.

[Woodsey]

If Ram allegedly owes $900k, that means he lost every hole if it was $50k per hole. That totally taking the piss on whatever handicap was decided, I wouldn't bloody pay.

[KingPoker]

If Ram allegedly owes $900k, that means he lost every hole if it was $50k per hole. That totally taking the piss on whatever handicap was decided, I wouldn't bloody pay.

Sure the handicap may have been wrong but the fact probably still remains that maybe ram was out of his depth. WHO KNOWS!

[boldie]

If Ram allegedly owes $900k, that means he lost every hole if it was $50k per hole. That totally taking the piss on whatever handicap was decided, I wouldn't bloody pay.

I have to say..if by the 9th hole Ram didn't think he was getting slaughtered he is either a sucker or didn't pay attention.
Essentially he donked off at least 450k unless Ivey was being very clever about it and only just scraped a win each hole.

[Mr Cool]

Hi all, i have been asked to reply to Kanos thread re golf game in Australia. On the basis that his post begins self-indulgent. semi-successful, boastful etc don't ask me how but i had an idea how his post may go, in poker terms he gave his hand away. If he had read i was the cause of climate control and poverty in the Third World i guess he would of just jumped in and slagged me off. Sorry i digress, but i feel better!! It is difficult to know where to start as he is so factually incorrect: I last saw Eric Sagstrom in Vegas in April 2006 so he never walked off after 9 holes and he may deserve an apology on the basis that "he had no intention of paying" for a game he never attended. (IMO) Kano and others may disagree.
At the start of the game we said to Phil that as we haven't played for 3 months and he must have improved we need to adjust the handicaps. We could not agree and we were doomed to no game until Ram said "does Eric Lingdren still give you 10 shots" to which Phil replied yes!!On that piece of information we had a game. As we always bitch about handicaps throughout the match Phil suggested that we agree to play 18 holes with no adjustment and then adjust for the next series of games. We agreed . I had 7 pars and a birdie back nine( even though i stormed off after 7 holes in a rage) and we lost 8 holes as they were 9 under for the last 7 holes. as anyone who plays golf would know when playing better ball doubles it is very hard to win by 3 or more holes , they finished 14 up lol. We have had the better of Phil in golf games over the last year but our biggest victory was 3 up. We had been spanked but arranged a new revised game later that week. We went out together that night (even though we have severed ties and have all this supposed ill feeling). Later on we met Eric who informed us that he gives Phil NO SHOTS. We therefore felt aggrieved and Ram asked Phil for an apology. As to wether we pay or not will be discussed in Vegas in April when we next meet. Let me put this question to you all. If i had turned up with a pro golfer and Phil said do you get shots off Eric, we said yes 10 . We played and won then he found out should he pay even a penny? If you think that he has been hustled not cheated and its just unlucky then you must be of the opinion that we should pay. In saying that If when we meet and we cant agree we will probably pay and sever ties. To gain an edge yes to win at all costs no thankyou. I will let you all know the outcome this April.

[KingPoker]

Hi all, i have been asked to reply to Kanos thread re golf game in Australia. On the basis that his post begins self-indulgent. semi-successful, boastful etc don't ask me how but i had an idea how his post may go, in poker terms he gave his hand away. If he had read i was the cause of climate control and poverty in the Third World i guess he would of just jumped in and slagged me off. Sorry i digress, but i feel better!! It is difficult to know where to start as he is so factually incorrect: I last saw Eric Sagstrom in Vegas in April 2006 so he never walked off after 9 holes and he may deserve an apology on the basis that "he had no intention of paying" for a game he never attended. (IMO) Kano and others may disagree.
At the start of the game we said to Phil that as we haven't played for 3 months and he must have improved we need to adjust the handicaps. We could not agree and we were doomed to no game until Ram said "does Eric Lingdren still give you 10 shots" to which Phil replied yes!!On that piece of information we had a game. As we always bitch about handicaps throughout the match Phil suggested that we agree to play 18 holes with no adjustment and then adjust for the next series of games. We agreed . I had 7 pars and a birdie back nine( even though i stormed off after 7 holes in a rage) and we lost 8 holes as they were 9 under for the last 7 holes. as anyone who plays golf would know when playing better ball doubles it is very hard to win by 3 or more holes , they finished 14 up lol. We have had the better of Phil in golf games over the last year but our biggest victory was 3 up. We had been spanked but arranged a new revised game later that week. We went out together that night (even though we have severed ties and have all this supposed ill feeling). Later on we met Eric who informed us that he gives Phil NO SHOTS. We therefore felt aggrieved and Ram asked Phil for an apology. As to wether we pay or not will be discussed in Vegas in April when we next meet. Let me put this question to you all. If i had turned up with a pro golfer and Phil said do you get shots off Eric, we said yes 10 . We played and won then he found out should he pay even a penny? If you think that he has been hustled not cheated and its just unlucky then you must be of the opinion that we should pay. In saying that If when we meet and we cant agree we will probably pay and sever ties. To gain an edge yes to win at all costs no thankyou. I will let you all know the outcome this April.

I love poker. There is no other sport i play that when rumours circulate about pro players, the pro actually comes on and gives his side of the story. Cheers marcy for givin us more to argue about now!

  KingPoker

[boldie]

Hi all, i have been asked to reply to Kanos thread re golf game in Australia. On the basis that his post begins self-indulgent. semi-successful, boastful etc don't ask me how but i had an idea how his post may go, in poker terms he gave his hand away. If he had read i was the cause of climate control and poverty in the Third World i guess he would of just jumped in and slagged me off. Sorry i digress, but i feel better!! It is difficult to know where to start as he is so factually incorrect: I last saw Eric Sagstrom in Vegas in April 2006 so he never walked off after 9 holes and he may deserve an apology on the basis that "he had no intention of paying" for a game he never attended. (IMO) Kano and others may disagree.
At the start of the game we said to Phil that as we haven't played for 3 months and he must have improved we need to adjust the handicaps. We could not agree and we were doomed to no game until Ram said "does Eric Lingdren still give you 10 shots" to which Phil replied yes!!On that piece of information we had a game. As we always bitch about handicaps throughout the match Phil suggested that we agree to play 18 holes with no adjustment and then adjust for the next series of games. We agreed . I had 7 pars and a birdie back nine( even though i stormed off after 7 holes in a rage) and we lost 8 holes as they were 9 under for the last 7 holes. as anyone who plays golf would know when playing better ball doubles it is very hard to win by 3 or more holes , they finished 14 up lol. We have had the better of Phil in golf games over the last year but our biggest victory was 3 up. We had been spanked but arranged a new revised game later that week. We went out together that night (even though we have severed ties and have all this supposed ill feeling). Later on we met Eric who informed us that he gives Phil NO SHOTS. We therefore felt aggrieved and Ram asked Phil for an apology. As to wether we pay or not will be discussed in Vegas in April when we next meet. Let me put this question to you all. If i had turned up with a pro golfer and Phil said do you get shots off Eric, we said yes 10 . We played and won then he found out should he pay even a penny? If you think that he has been hustled not cheated and its just unlucky then you must be of the opinion that we should pay. In saying that If when we meet and we cant agree we will probably pay and sever ties. To gain an edge yes to win at all costs no thankyou. I will let you all know the outcome this April.

I love poker. There is no other sport i play that when rumours circulate about pro players, the pro actually comes on and gives his side of the story. Cheers marcy for givin us more to argue about now!

  KingPoker

Yeah thanks for telling the story.

as far as I'm concerned there's nothing to argue about. It's cheating and that's all there is to it.

[Micko]

Pretty obvious that ivey dosen't think much of his friendship with ram and marc to pull this move as  i think he would of realised before he played that when he tanked them by so much there would of been some heated words at the very least!

Golf is a gentlemans game honourable game its ok gettin an edge by fair handicaps but ivey improvin so much and still declaring his old handicap is just dirty and cheatin and people that play golf will understand that its just real dirty trick!!

It is tough 1 to call cause i would say ram and marc prob took good doe off ivey at the orignal handicaps and ivey thought that they caught him so he was just repayin the favour in his eyes!

Also remember rhowena interviewin ivey after london ept she asked about goodwin takin money off him at golf and he laughed and said he'll be gettin some shortly this explains what he meant lol

[ariston]

As a side note I am playing Ram and Marc next week for 50k a hole, they have made me stick to my old official handicap of 11 which I think is a little unfair as I haven't been playing much. My partner Tiger Woods gets 10 shots off Erik though so I have a feeling we shall be OK

cheers for taking the time to reply btw Marc.