Walsall GukPT: Final Day - Interactive

[ariston]

prbably the best structured event you will get to play in without going to a 10k buyin. The moaners are people who aren't used to running antes (most players in the UK don't like them), if people want to go play in the wsop/wpt type events and do well they better adapt their games and get used to running antes, they are used everywhere else in the world. I think changing the structure from the advertised one during the event is wrong as players who have played and taken gambles according to the advertised structure are then being penalised for playing correctly.

[snoopy1239]

While that was going on, there was a couple of all-in (maybe moves?) on the other table from aggressive young player Ganesh Rao.

Firstly, Chris Bruce raised from under the gun to 35k, only for big blinder Ganesh Rao to ask "Stealing my blinds?"

No comment from Chris led to Ganesh wsiftly announcing "all-in" adding "I told you not to nick 'em"

Chris Bruce folded, although somehwhat reluctantly.

The next hand, Ganesh was at it again, raising Joe's button raise of 35k to 85k. Joe also folded.

[Djinn]

Chris Bruce is down to the felt while Dan Carter doubles his stack out of the 'middling' ones...

Ganesh Rao raised on the button, kicking off a large pot as Dan Carter pushed all-in on the small blind.  Thinking he was at it (and fairly enough) Chris Bruce re-raised all-in, getting rid of Rao while Dan was happy to see his up against Chris Bruce's .

Flop:   
Turn:    (Dan is looking ready to bow out)
River:    ("Online!"  mutter the railers, continually horrified by how similar the live game is.)

[snoopy1239]

And just as he's got em, Jerome's lost em, doubling up fan favourite Des Jonas.

Battle of the blinds (Jerome small, Des big), all the chips manage to fly in with Des's A-5 in hot water against the domineering Fives of Gutshotter Jerome.

And with a J-Q-Q Flop it wasn't looking good until the Jack Turn surprised everyone by pairing the board, thereby counterfeiting Jerome's pair.

[The Camel]

I can't believe some of the things I've read and heard about the structure here.

 Let's first look at what the organisers are trying to achieve.

 The first decision they have made is that these are four day events. It was to be that some would be three days, but it seems this is going to be a very popular tour. I think four days is just right as it gives normal working people a chance to partake and gives the pros the chance to play all the events without spending their whole lives on it.

 This is a very popular tournament with more people wishing to enter than spaces. The organisers have tried to physically squeeze everyone in, and have also tried to squeeze the tournament into the time available. The tournament is four days long and basically Sunday is intended to be just for the final. In my view this is a correct deciion as it means that enormous numbers of extra players do not have to stay longer, putting in more hours, building up extra expenses and receiving little or no prize money. It also means that the final will start at a reasonable time allowing the big money decisions to take place earlier on, while people are not exhausted from a marathon day. This will also mean that a live audience will be on hand and awake to add atmosphere, and that the TV crew and casino staff will be not have to work on late into the night. If any hitches occurr or if the final becomes a really long battle, there will be no time pressure and the threat of a chip count will be averted.

 Given that they have made that decision to try and get very close to the final by the end of play Saturday then they just need to construct a structure to do that. As they started at 4pm, got down to 12 players by 3.45am and the casino is legally bound to close at 4am I don't see how they could have squeezed much more play into the time available.

 The only choice left to them now is to take play away from the early part of the tournament in order to make a better game later. It is possible that by bringing the antes in slightly earlier or by skipping the odd level they could give themselves leeway to slow things down later. The problem here is that more people would be affected by the quickening of the structure leaving more people to complain.

 There may be some tweeks that can be made but they should only be tweeks. Basically the GUKPT have got it right.

 The people who have commented already have covered a lot of good points. A lot of the people who have complained are simply not used to tournaments with running antes. I think it is a great development that the bigger UK tournaments are all starting to have antes now. All American and online NLH tournaments have a running ante and to me it just isn't a proper NLH tournament without them. I have no idea why they have not always been used in past Grosvenor festivals but I think a lot of the rocks who are not used to antes, and who were unable to adapt to a new situation were the ones shouting the loudest.

 The second really good point is that changing things that have been advertised because people are shouting and moaning is generally bad. The time for these people to complain was either when the structure was first displayed on the website or long after the end of the tournament. I thought one quote yesterday was very telling. Top tournament player, wily super agggressive veteran and altogether classy individual Alan MacLean had taken considerable risks to accrue an enormous stack, possibly because he realised that the pace of the tournament was rising fast and that people had not realised. He did not shout and scream like some, but was heard to quietly exclaim:

 "The rocks have won."

 Any time you change the structure midway, even if you think you are benefitting the game, you are penalising somebody else. In this case it was the people who just got on with it, adapted to the structure they were facing and played to win. Some of those were knocked out on gambles they may not have taken and others had won chips with gambles that were now not as valuable as they thought.

 The final person who made a lot of sense to me was Rob Sherwood. The sentiment he was trying to get over was, I believe, this one. Its a poker tournament. The blinds have to go up, people have to be knocked out, that's what happens. It has to finish sometime. If you don't like the idea of that go and play a cash game, which is exactly what I'm off to do now.

nc 

The two levels 75-150 and 150-300 are a total waste of time.

Without those two levels, they would have 2 extra hours to add extra levels when they are playing for big money.

[snoopy1239]

Meanwhile, on the other table, short-stacked Chris Bruce finds a much needed double up with A-7 vs. the A-2 of Dan Carter.

[RobS]

Very good post by Neil Channing (not just because he's the first person to say I talk sense). The decision taken to freeze the antes last night, whilst benefitting the short to medium stacks and tight players who are not used to playing NLHE tournies with running antes, is at the same time going to disadvantage the loose aggressive large stacks who can adapt to antes, as Neil hints at, players in the mould of Alan Maclean.

Maybe there is scope to do something along the lines of increasing the clock to ninety minute levels for the final table in future, so there is more 'play' when the serious money is being decided (in fact isn't this what they do for every WSOP event final table). However, messing about with the structure to the benefit of the rocks and short stacks who are trying to scramble into the minor money places to win two buy-ins is a bit silly, and to me seems unfair on the players who are capable of taking advantage of the running antes around the bubble.

[portfolio]

conroy at 25-1 is just ridiculous with his mtt experience online, hes only a couple of hands from the bigstack and he will be out early or have a stack for the final. Shaf at 7-1 is also too high as he is a streak/form player and nobdoy can doubt his current run. Those will be the 2 bets for me.

[/quote]


agreed.

[snoopy1239]

Double up heaven for Conroy. Also shorstacked, John perhaps though Shaf was on a complete steal and so moved all-in on his pre-flop raise, but Shaf called and revealed , which was well in front of John's A-4o. However, a Q-4-4-x-x board meant that Punk Floyd lives to fight another day.

There's that double up that you guys think will lead him to the top 3.

[RED-DOG]

The two levels 75-150 and 150-300 are a total waste of time.

Without those two levels, they would have 2 extra hours to add extra levels when they are playing for big money.

The Camel and I often disagree, but this is the first time that I have felt compelled to say "Poppycock!"

[ariston]

thought shaf had 8d9d on the conroy hand snoops. the flop of k44 was quite emphatic anyway, 25-1 still on offer by any chance?

[snoopy1239]

Jerome Bradpiece -- 535k
Des Jonas -- 525k
Mohammed Shafiq -- 205k
John Conroy -- 360k
Adam Wilkinson -- 180k

[snoopy1239]

thought shaf had 8d9d on the conroy hand snoops. the flop of k44 was quite emphatic anyway, 25-1 still on offer by any chance?

Lady from Bad Beat (hamsterboy's mrs who is following Conroy told me it was ), but she could have made a tikay mistread. Either way, result is the same.

[snoopy1239]

thought shaf had 8d9d on the conroy hand snoops. the flop of k44 was quite emphatic anyway, 25-1 still on offer by any chance?

Lady from Bad Beat (hamsterboy's mrs who is following Conroy told me it was ), but she could have made a tikay mistread. Either way, result is the same.

Nope, I misheard her, it was .

[ariston]

yeh set of fours still good nomatter what shaf had. I have one of my sneaking feelings on this one now and conroy will be a force to be reckoned with.