General Fighting thread

[bolt pp]

Thoughts on Kimbo? Big puncher that's about it I think, also I lol at people who think he could be a contender in the heavyweight division of boxing.

Bruce Lee in UFC? I think he'd be unstoppable. He would need to adapt his style but he was a pioneer of his own mix martial art so he could def have adapted.

lol @ kimbo

what makes me laugh is that before he's last fight he was on the news and main piece on the msn homepage, like he's this really great fighter thats worked he's way up from the street to conquer the world of ufc!

firstly out of about 15 of he's street fights ive seen he's fought hardly anyone, no one with any professional fighting experience, except gannon and that was the fight in which he pretty much got battered,

secondly anyone who knows anything can pretty much see he is not up to world class ufc standard, the media are pushing the story to try and make it into this big fairytale rags to riches story, truth is he just hasn't got it.

[jun_fan_lee]

Thoughts on Kimbo? Big puncher that's about it I think, also I lol at people who think he could be a contender in the heavyweight division of boxing.

Bruce Lee in UFC? I think he'd be unstoppable. He would need to adapt his style but he was a pioneer of his own mix martial art so he could def have adapted.

lol @ kimbo

what makes me laugh is that before he's last fight he was on the news and main piece on the msn homepage, like he's this really great fighter thats worked he's way up from the street to conquer the world of ufc!

firstly out of about 15 of he's street fights ive seen he's fought hardly anyone, no one with any professional fighting experience, except gannon and that was the fight in which he pretty much got battered,

secondly anyone who knows anything can pretty much see he is not up to world class ufc standard, the media are pushing the story to try and make it into this big fairytale rags to riches story, truth is he just hasn't got it.

totally agree with u

[scotty2hatty]

He didn't get battered by Gannon - watch the video again please.

[bolt pp]

He didn't get battered by Gannon - watch the video again please.

lol, he got battered.

i threw in a few "he's" just for you in that last post scotty

[jun_fan_lee]

wot about bruce then?

[AdamM]

Thoughts on Kimbo? Big puncher that's about it I think, also I lol at people who think he could be a contender in the heavyweight division of boxing.

Bruce Lee in UFC? I think he'd be unstoppable. He would need to adapt his style but he was a pioneer of his own mix martial art so he could def have adapted.

Kimbo: in the greater scheme or things, a relatively tough dude who'll win most street fights he's in. He'll never trouble the top of the sport, but Bas Rutten is a legend and if anyone can turn him into at least a passable heavyweight MMA fight, Bas can. If he faced anyone in the top 25 in the world he'd get a battering. He's as much right to be seen as an MMA fighter as Brock Lesnar though, if not more so.

Bruce Lee: don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of Bruce Lee. He was a pioneer and had a massive impact on global martial arts. If Bruce had not have died when he did, I dare say MMA would of been along a LOT sooner than it was. I also imagine there'd be a lot less Tae Kwon Do and karate classes around and a lot more Jun Fan Gung Fu classes. However, even if you could zip Bruce 35 years from 1973 to now and drop him in the cage against the current fighters, he'd lose. Even in modern self protection terms, a lot of Bruces thinking would be outdated. If he were alive today I think he'd agree and he'd be training and teaching very differently to how he did before he died. Bruce wasn't a big fan of martial arts for combat sports sake, but if you had Bruce in his prime and could persuade him to specifically train for the cage, maybe he'd do ok. All that said, you take Bruce in his prime to 1993 and drop him in UFC 1 and Royce Gracie gets a beating.

[jun_fan_lee]

Thoughts on Kimbo? Big puncher that's about it I think, also I lol at people who think he could be a contender in the heavyweight division of boxing.

Bruce Lee in UFC? I think he'd be unstoppable. He would need to adapt his style but he was a pioneer of his own mix martial art so he could def have adapted.

Kimbo: in the greater scheme or things, a relatively tough dude who'll win most street fights he's in. He'll never trouble the top of the sport, but Bas Rutten is a legend and if anyone can turn him into at least a passable heavyweight MMA fight, Bas can. If he faced anyone in the top 25 in the world he'd get a battering. He's as much right to be seen as an MMA fighter as Brock Lesnar though, if not more so.

Bruce Lee: don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of Bruce Lee. He was a pioneer and had a massive impact on global martial arts. If Bruce had not have died when he did, I dare say MMA would of been along a LOT sooner than it was. I also imagine there'd be a lot less Tae Kwon Do and karate classes around and a lot more Jun Fan Gung Fu classes. However, even if you could zip Bruce 35 years from 1973 to now and drop him in the cage against the current fighters, he'd lose. Even in modern self protection terms, a lot of Bruce's thinking would be outdated. If he were alive today I think he'd agree and he'd be training and teaching very differently to how he did before he died. Bruce wasn't a big fan of martial arts for combat sports sake, but if you had Bruce in his prime and could persuade him to specifically train for the cage, maybe he'd do ok. All that said, you take Bruce in his prime to 1993 and drop him in UFC 1 and Royce Gracie gets a beating.

I agree he'd need to change his style but I think he'd be the first to recognise that and would develop his skills accordingly, if he was pioneering then then he'd be pioneering now. I think he was the perfect match of skill, physicality and brains and that's a dangerous combo.

[AdamM]

If JKD was transferable to the cage, Dan Inosanto would be the greatest MMA trainer in the world.

[jun_fan_lee]

If JKD was transferable to the cage, Dan Inosanto would be the greatest MMA trainer in the world.

he was a former student of bruce right? think iv seen him on some vids.

As a side note, I'm assuming you train for MMA. How did you start off in the sport ie martial arts background or just like fighting?

I've always thought i'd like to try it as much for the training as the fighting but I'm not a trained fighter would it be a waste of time?

[AdamM]

Dan Inosanto was more than just a student really. He's the only person certified directly by Bruce Lee in both Jun Fan Gung Fu and JKD. He took over the training of Brandon after his death. He's 71 and is an absolute legend of a man. He's obviously far supassed where Bruce was in '73.

No, I don't train MMA specifically. I train in Reality Based Self Defence (RBSD) but I've been kickboxing 14 years and MMA was being born about the time I started training. We do include some sport training method to work our core skills, but there's a big difference between training for the street and the cage (not least the level of commitment to your physical condition required to be a decent cage fighter)

I would never discourage someone from training in martial arts, for self protection or sport/fitness. where are you based? I'll see if I can recommend someone. Also how old are you? not that it matters, we've had people come to us in their 40's and start training.

[AdamM]

cambridge, 24

I'll as around if you like

[Gryff]

Thoughts on Kimbo? Big puncher that's about it I think, also I lol at people who think he could be a contender in the heavyweight division of boxing.

Bruce Lee in UFC? I think he'd be unstoppable. He would need to adapt his style but he was a pioneer of his own mix martial art so he could def have adapted.

Kimbo: in the greater scheme or things, a relatively tough dude who'll win most street fights he's in. He'll never trouble the top of the sport, but Bas Rutten is a legend and if anyone can turn him into at least a passable heavyweight MMA fight, Bas can. If he faced anyone in the top 25 in the world he'd get a battering. He's as much right to be seen as an MMA fighter as Brock Lesnar though, if not more so.

Bruce Lee: don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of Bruce Lee. He was a pioneer and had a massive impact on global martial arts. If Bruce had not have died when he did, I dare say MMA would of been along a LOT sooner than it was. I also imagine there'd be a lot less Tae Kwon Do and karate classes around and a lot more Jun Fan Gung Fu classes. However, even if you could zip Bruce 35 years from 1973 to now and drop him in the cage against the current fighters, he'd lose. Even in modern self protection terms, a lot of Bruces thinking would be outdated. If he were alive today I think he'd agree and he'd be training and teaching very differently to how he did before he died. Bruce wasn't a big fan of martial arts for combat sports sake, but if you had Bruce in his prime and could persuade him to specifically train for the cage, maybe he'd do ok. All that said, you take Bruce in his prime to 1993 and drop him in UFC 1 and Royce Gracie gets a beating.

I think you're a little off here.

Rewatch Mir vs Lesnar again, I think if they rematch Lesnar is the favourite. He's got a pretty good future in the sport and is pretty legit.

He's an olympic wrestler - wrestlers work ethic is utterly insane, the reason why wrestling and wrestlers did well in the UFC for a long period was their physical strength and conditioning - it made them tough for pure submission grapplers to submit them and it made it tough for strikers to avoid takedowns.

As takedown defence has improved, and as sub guys have realised they need to train wrestling and stand up the game has changed. Pure wrestlers are doing much worse vs top tier guys these days simply because their advantage vs both strikers and sub guys has decreased a ton and the strikers/sub guys cardio has increased a lot.

[AdamM]

Lesnar is NOT an olympic wrestler. He has a decent College wrestling pedigree but that's not enough to be an MMA fighter. Kimbo is a banger. That's also not enough to be an MMA fighter. Kimbo is trainining under one of the greatest Mixed Martial Artists of all time in Bas Rutten. I have no idea who Lesnar is training with, but if it was one of the major camps, I guess I'd of heard.

The age of the wrestler is past in MMA (I hope). As you rightly say, against old style one dimensional fighters, the ox strong wrestlers would just maul them. However, long fight conditioning was not always the wrestlers strength. For example watch Mark Coleman when he was the top heavyweight in early UFC. He was destroying legends like Dan Severn and Gary Goodridge. Once people realised that past the 6th or 7th minute he was totally gased and ready to get picked off, they just learned to ride the storm. Maurice Smith v Mark Coleman was an excellent fight. for 10 mins, Coleman lay on top of Smith and dropped elbows and headbutts. Smith tied him up and (suprisingly for someone known as a top kickboxer) went for a few subs. during the OT Smith battered him while Coleman wobbled about like a drunk, hands by his sides, mouth wide open, glowing red. Pete Williams did the same in the next right and landed a KO that's still being shown now. Those big muscles need a lot of oxygenated blood pumping to them. hard to do for long periods of time.

I've watched Lesnar v Mir LOADS and I'm still of the opinion that, this was typical Frank Mir. He always had a habit of taking a bit of a pounding before usually landing a stunning submission. Sometimes it went wrong, for example when Ian Freeman beat the shit out of him at the Albert Hall. The BJJ guys love the victorys where they have to take some punishment and fight through it. If Mir and Lesnar fight 10 times, Mir wins 7 for me.

Good luck to Lesnar, if he puts a lot of work in, he might do ok, but he'll never be top 10 I don't think. We'll see.

[Gryff]

You're right he never went to the olympics, my bad

his college pedigree is definately better than decent though.

He did win the NCAA divison 1 twice in back to back years which is a pretty tough thing to do.
He's training at the Minnesota MMA Academy which has a pretty decent amount of fighters although arguably not many elite guys. ( Sean Sherk is probably the most noteworthy ).

I think the traditional "lol WWE" thing definately hurts his reputation a bit but if he works on his submission defence he'll be a pretty big force simply due to strength and conditioning thats so much tougher to have in that division.

[Grier78]

At least Brock put on a fairly interesting (if short) heavyweight bout, don't see many of those these days.

He needs to learn how to punch and drop elbows, the shots against Mir were wild and ineffective IMO.