More rubbish limit play

[matt674]

It's a marginal pre-flop call, but don't worry, it's not as criminal a play as the TAG monkey would have you believe.

If you are comfy with your post flop play, it might even be marginally +EV. Marginal doesn't always mean marginally bad.

never said it was a criminal play - just said that you cant complain when you go broke calling all the way with the worst hand. Yes occasionally you will hit and will be worth it but then you have to look back and see how many times you are making this play to establish whether it is +ev in the long run

[thetank]

If you check raise on the flop then you only net an extra 1 big bet - then what do you do on the turn when you miss?

The extra big bets comes when they both call the turn raises/re-raises and river bets/raises, rather than just one or none of them if you go for keeping it small. You have a monster draw, and limit poker monster draws like moster pots.

See above for what I do on the turn if I miss.

[Muahahahaha]

Two further questions arise

1) If you are trying not to 'waste' bets how do you decide when to call with marginal stuff ?  In this case I thought the pot odds dictated a call.  I wouldn't have called for 300.

2) The problem I have in limit with check raising, is basically, what if noone bets.  Ok so you see a free card.  But if you hit & the board gets scary, can you still expect to get paid off ?  You can't check raise again, so I assume you lead out, but won't everyone ( sane ) just fold ?

[matt674]

If you check raise on the flop then you only net an extra 1 big bet - then what do you do on the turn when you miss?

The extra big bets comes when they both call the turn raises/re-raises and river bets/raises, rather than just one or none of them if you go for keeping it small. You have a monster draw, and limit poker monster draws like moster pots.

See above for what I do on the turn if I miss.

but if you check raise the flop then there is an extra 1 big bet in the pot - Mrfluffykins is not going to bet either the turn or river because you have shown strength so either you have to come out firing (and in this case it would mean that the pot ends up slightly less than it did in this example) or you check to give yourself a free card on the river where you miss again and are done with the hand (which gives an even smaller pot).

[matt674]

Two further questions arise

1) If you are trying not to 'waste' bets how do you decide when to call with marginal stuff ?  In this case I thought the pot odds dictated a call.  I wouldn't have called for 300.

This is why i hate limit poker Implied odds aren't as relevant, its very rare you can force people off pots and bluffing isn't much of a weapon in multiway pots (which you will get many of in the first couple of hours in tourneys like this).

[thetank]

Do you ever check raise the flop in limit without a made hand Matt?

[thetank]

2) The problem I have in limit with check raising, is basically, what if noone bets.  Ok so you see a free card.  But if you hit & the board gets scary, can you still expect to get paid off ?  You can't check raise again, so I assume you lead out, but won't everyone ( sane ) just fold ?

If no-one bets that after the pre-flop action you are probably in a very passive game, and are set to clean up.

[Muahahahaha]

It's a marginal pre-flop call, but don't worry, it's not as criminal a play as the TAG monkey would have you believe.

If you are comfy with your post flop play, it might even be marginally +EV. Marginal doesn't always mean marginally bad.

never said it was a criminal play - just said that you cant complain when you go broke calling all the way with the worst hand. Yes occasionally you will hit and will be worth it but then you have to look back and see how many times you are making this play to establish whether it is +ev in the long run

TBH  Once I saw the flop, if it had been NL I'd have pushed.  This is where limit gives me a headache.  I don't mind going bust in a cheap tourney like this, it's just a case of when is the best time to do it ?

When the cards drop for you, this game ( at my level ) is easy - you get as much money in the middle as possible.

It's when they don't hit.  Do you just give up ?  Do you try ' one more card ' ?  Do you represent, like you can in NL ?

 

[Muahahahaha]

2) The problem I have in limit with check raising, is basically, what if noone bets.  Ok so you see a free card.  But if you hit & the board gets scary, can you still expect to get paid off ?  You can't check raise again, so I assume you lead out, but won't everyone ( sane ) just fold ?

If no-one bets that after the pre-flop action you are probably in a very passive game, and are set to clean up.

I've got more chance of cleaning up with a dust pan & brush

[matt674]

Do you ever check raise the flop in limit without a made hand Matt?

yes but not very often, it a move i use more in pot or no limit.

[Royal Flush]

It's simple, you have the best hand on the flop, get as much money in as u can.

The other beauty of the CR on the flop is if you then check the turn the button may be wary of being check raised again and check behind saving you 1/2 a bet when you miss.

These kind of hands are not for TAG's you have to play them wildly aggressive.

[matt674]

It's simple, you have the best hand on the flop, get as much money in as u can.

These kind of hands are not for TAG's you have to play them wildly aggressive.

but then you also say

The other beauty of the CR on the flop is if you then check the turn the button may be wary of being check raised again and check behind saving you 1/2 a bet when you miss.

if your lucky you can get a free card if you miss by checking and save money

make your mind up

[thetank]

You have best hand on flop, he's talking about the turn in his second quote, where if you miss, you no longer have the best hand and act accordingly.

[matt674]

He says get as much money in on the flop as you can but what if you check on the flop with the intention of check raising but then your opponent behind you checks?

The only way you can guarantee that you get as much money in on the flop is to bet it which is what happens - but then you miss on the turn and your opponent fires out you no longer have the best hand. How do you play it wildly aggressive?

[thetank]

Glass is always half empty with you isn't it. Pre flop raiser is always going to bet that flop.

 How do you play it wildly aggressive?

By check raising the flop  (where have you been?)