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AdamM
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« Reply #150 on: June 09, 2007, 11:14:22 AM »

tricky isn't it. In any other situation than his daughters wedding I'd have to challenge it in someway.

the fellas at work I mentioned give me a similar problem. In most experiences I've had with overtly racist people in my life, I've found them to be thoroughly unpleasant in general. It's only recently that I've found people who can be otherwise funny, intelligent, generally kind people who then suprisingly show a strong dislike for another racial group.

Challenging people on Racism will inevitably put a barrier up between you and them. Difficult when you work in a confined space with them. Personally I always try and challenge it even if I try and do it in a 'humourous way' If someone says something about another ethnic group I'll say something like "if you say so Adolf" Or I'll say something like "send 'em home" which they know I'm saying ironically.  I think it makes it clear I disagree with what they've said but in a way that doesn't start an argument.
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MANTIS01
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« Reply #151 on: June 09, 2007, 12:59:27 PM »

The message I have been trying to get across is....how can you have a society based around equality when you judge certain types of "offence" as more serous than others? This is inbalance not equality. Calling someone a "nigger" and calling someone a "fat bitch" is the same in my eyes. You are bullying someone else by targeting a charcateristic of that person. I don't agree that certain characteristics deserve special consideration in the offence stakes. If you are being nasty to someone you are being nasty...period. It has to be easier to move towards a genuinely equal society if you judge that causing hurt is as relevant and serious no matter who the victim is. Remember...we are not talking about racism here we are talking about "offence".

AdamM. You make some interesting points and are clearly passionate about this subject. In answer to the questions you pose...

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My thought process is not governed by the literal definition of a word.


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all having the same definitions for words makes it much easier to discuss it and understand each other. we're doing very well keeping this civil and discussing it calmly but it's been teetering on the edge a while and one misplaced 'definition' could send it over.
Racism is a deeply complex subject. If we all take our definition of this issue from a few lines in the English Dictionary then we are doing a dis-service to it's complexity. Does racism really hold the same definition for all of us? To think that it does will mean that we will never actually understand each other as you suggest.

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Racial discrimination is connected to race...not colour, and racial abuse is no different than any other kind of abuse/bullying.


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sorry, I think you're wrong on both counts. We're ALL mixed race. Charlie is English / British. what makes hre different to Emily is her skin pigmentation. Who do you think suffers most from racism in this country. A black Englishman or a white Australian? Or how about a 5th generation Indian family compared with a visiting White American family? It's most definitely connected to skin colour.
Who do I think suffers most? Anybody who is subjected to racism suffers equally in my book. I think anybody who starts seeing "colour" as a factor will struggle to find an answer to the ignorance of persecution. People are bullied because they are different. Skin colour just make those differences more immediately obvious. Again, to suggest that there is a difference represents inequality.

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All around the world different races struggle to co-exist. Just look at the endless problems in Israel as an example.

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again, not a direction I think we ought to be going down here.
Avoiding debate about sensitive issues will always prevent progress towards a solution

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Britain needs to stop apologising for things that happened hundreds of years ago and move forward as the multi-cultural modern day country that it truly is.

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You are either living in a box or are very lucky not to see active racism around you on a daily basis.
I live in Birmingham, a thoroughly multi-cultural city. My work and social circles include a wide range of races. This is the norm for the next generation. This is why I don't think it's appropriate for others to come down hard on an 18 year-old girl who hasn't the faintest idea what you're talking about. She doesn't see the colour in her friend Charley until the pc brigade ram it down her throat. How ironic.
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Ironside
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« Reply #152 on: June 14, 2007, 03:30:57 PM »

anyone see "Britain's got talent" last night or it could of been the follow up show "Britain's got more talent" had it on in the background and which big brother wannabe superstar was on there saying they wanted to be a "TV presenter" "TV personality" preforming in front of the queen at the royal variety show none other than this years first evictee (tomorrow night) who after 2 days was hoping to get kicked out so she could now reap the rewards of her hard work and get the fame she so desired
little does she know that as a female in the BB house the only fame she will get is getting her kit off for the readers of ZOO or NUTS
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« Reply #153 on: June 14, 2007, 04:18:04 PM »

Calling someone a "nigger" and calling someone a "fat bitch" is the same in my eyes.

I don't see how these can be equated. The first is a judgement made on the basis of skin tone, which has no bearing whatsoever on a person's character, the other is a comment on someones lifestyle/personality which does have some relation to their character. While they are both incredibly unpleasant they indicate very different things about the person uttering them. (and I doubt there will ever be mass genocide or slavery of people based on their weight.)
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booder
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« Reply #154 on: June 14, 2007, 04:52:47 PM »

. (and I doubt there will ever be mass genocide or slavery of people based on their weight.)

a collective sigh of relief is heard from the mods room
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im not speculating, either, but id have been pretty peeved if i missed the thread and i ended up getting clipped, kindly accepting a lift home.

In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.
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