Liverpool FC

[byronkincaid]

Hansen has said that Rafa has left a worse squad then he inherited from Houlllier

Can someone post a squad from that time i think Rafa has improved the quality and value of the team

changed his tune from the start of the season

[The Baron]

Sheeeet!

It's a done deal. Awesome decision.

FYP

He needed to go imo

Agree to an extent but as there is abs no way we can replace him with a manager of the same calibre I think were now nailed on to lose gerrard, torres and masch - all of whom rated him.

The echo has already reported as much.

Even the biggest hater can't think this is good.

[The Baron]

Hansen has said that Rafa has left a worse squad then he inherited from Houlllier

Can someone post a squad from that time i think Rafa has improved the quality and value of the team

lol firstly he was backed less than Houllier.

Secondly it's a miles better team and squad.

It is weaker than it was 2 years ago tho. We had a good level of depth and the first XI was getting there.

[The Baron]

Oh and the two most highly rated youth coaches on Earth who brought through Xavi, Iniesta, Messi etc who have just cone to Liverpool must be thinking WTF!

I can't overstate how bad a move this was.

[mondatoo]

If Torres and Gerrard both left Liverpool are for want of a better word,fkd.I like Liverpool in a way I think they're similar to us,only they win things.GLGL getting the house in order

[The Baron]

If Torres and Gerrard both left Liverpool are for want of a better word,fkd.I like Liverpool in a way I think they're similar to us,only they win things.GLGL getting the house in order

Cheers fella. I've no doubt it'll be ok as some very rich people want to buy us and with over 100 million fans worldwide and the ability to increase revenue so much you can see why.

The problem is we are facing a short term shitstorm.

[MC]

Hansen has said that Rafa has left a worse squad then he inherited from Houlllier

Can someone post a squad from that time i think Rafa has improved the quality and value of the team

Team from May 2004: Dudek, Finnan, Carragher, Hyypia, Riise, Kewell, Hamann, Gerrard, Murphy, Owen, Heskey (Smicer, Baros, Biscan, Cheyrou, Pongolle, Henchoz, Le Tallec)

Compared with 2010: Reina, Johnson, Agger, Skrtel, Carragher, Mascherano, Gerrard, Lucas, Rodriguez, Kuyt, Torres (Aquilani, Ngog, Kyrgiakos, El Zhar, Babel, Degen, Ayala)

Below just my rough opinion, but Houllier's team probably shades it based on stronger depth of squad...

Dudek < Reina
Finnan < Johnson
Carragher = Carragher
Hyypia > Skrtel
Riise > Agger
Hamann = Mascherano
Gerrard = Gerrard
Murphy > Lucas
Kewell > Rodriguez
Heskey < Kuyt
Owen < Torres

Smicer > Aquilani
Baros > Ngog
Henchoz > Kyrgiakos
Biscan > Degen
Cheryrou = Ayala
El Zhar = La Tallec
Pongolle = Babel

[The Baron]

Not sure if it's already been posted but I've found this the only article to properly represent the legacy of our departed manager. Excellent stuff from Brian Reade -as we've come to expect. Honest and insightful.


http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opin...cle448527.html


Right to the end the professional pundits failed to understand why so many Liverpudlians stayed loyal to Rafa Benitez.

As 500 fans marched on Anfield after his departure, chanting the Spaniard’s name, heads shook at a footballing sub-species bracketed *somewhere between romantic die-hards and mawkish morons.

To the “expert” eye, these deluded fools had been conned by Benitez’s cunning and blinded to his failings by the glory of Istanbul and the *criminal incompetence of the American owners.

Liverpool fans they said, once among the most knowledgeable in the world, had clearly lost touch with the modern reality, and were now a sad throwback to the days when sideburned men kicked orange balls.

Well, I’d argue one of the saddest aspects of modern *football is too many pundits, including ex-players, have not paid to watch a game since those orange ball days. And they’ve lost touch with the fan.

I’m not saying Benitez had to stay. The results and the football last year were shocking, he’s been a major player in Anfield’s destructive civil war, and the number of fans disillusioned with his style and methods was growing.

But to paint his six-year reign as an unmitigated disaster, sustained only by the over-sentimentalising of Istanbul, is analysis at its most skewed and cringeful. By 2004 Liverpool had been relegated to the status of European also-rans. Benitez made the club a genuine world force again.

It wasn’t just that 2005 *Champions League win (which is shamelessly downplayed as a fluke despite beating Fabio Capello’s Juventus, Jose Mourinho’s Chelsea and Carlo Ancelotti’s AC Milan). Or reaching the 2007 Champions League final and the 2008 semi-final. It wasn’t even UEFA elevating Liverpool to Europe’s top-seeded club due to results under Benitez.

It was beating Real Madrid and Inter Milan at the Bernabeu and San Siro (which the Reds had never before done) and Barcelona at the Nou Camp. Magical victories at the very top of world football, which restored long-overdue respect to Liverpudlian hearts.

Ah say the experts, but he didn’t win the league. True. But he got closer than any Liverpool boss in the past 20 years. A season ago he was a whisker away, taking the highest number of points by a runner-up in a 38-game season and the club’s best points haul since 1988.

And he did so despite having the 5th highest wage bill *in the league, the 5th *costliest squad, the 5th biggest stadium capacity and a net annual transfer spend of £15million. Which should have made experts ask why Liverpool were ever considered a nailed-on top four side under Benitez, especially when the boardroom was mired in anarchy.

Ah, they say, but he’d long lost the players and the board. So why have Steven Gerrard, Fernando Torres, Daniel Agger, Dirk Kuyt and Pepe Reina signed new long-term contracts within the past year? Why last August did managing director Christian Purslow do interviews purring over Benitez and how he was integral to the club’s future?

Ah, the experts say, but that was before he let Xabi Alonso go, which everyone could see was a calamity. These would be the same experts who, for the previous couple of seasons, claimed Liverpool were a two-man team. With Alonso (on whom Benitez turned a £20million profit) never being mentioned as one of those two.

Ah, they say, but Torres apart, he only signed sub-standard dross and ended up with a shockingly-weak squad. Really?

Liverpool are sending 12 players (13 if you count Milan Jovanovic whose Bosman signing is going through) to the World Cup. Or an entire team: Reina, Carragher, Agger, Skrtel, Johnson, Babel, Gerrard, Mascherano, Rodriguez, Kuyt, Torres. Subs: Kyrgiakos, Jovanovic.

Eleven Chelsea players flew out to South Africa, the same number as Arsenal, and Manchester United sent eight. Does that look like he’s left Anfield bare of talent?

The truth is Benitez leaves a squad worth many times more than the one he inherited, despite spending less in the past three transfer windows than he’s brought in.

I don’t seek to rewrite history or airbrush Benitez’s *failings. I saw last year’s football and it stank. I felt the growing anger among players and fans at his single-mindedness and knew something had to give.

Which is why it may be best for all concerned that he walks on. But now he has, let’s do him the honour of getting his legacy right.

Rafa Benitez was many things at Liverpool but unlike every manager since Kenny Dalglish, he was not a failure. Indeed a majority of *Liverpudlians will remember him as a legend.

Because like Bill Shankly, on more days and nights than those expert pundits ever care to recall, he made the people happy.

[The Baron]

Dudek < Reina
Finnan < Johnson
Carragher = Carragher (CB Carragher pwns Houllier's RB/LB Carragher)
Hyypia > Skrtel (Skrtel is now at the age Hyypia joined the club but fair enough)
Riise > Agger (LB vs CB? Agger vs Henchoz would be more accurate with Agger miles ahead)
Hamann = Mascherano (Masch>Hamann for me)
Gerrard = Gerrard (Far superior Gerrard as an AM then the DM or RM that he was)
Murphy > Lucas
Kewell > Rodriguez (LOL! You have to be kidding? Maxi has done more in his last 6 games than Kewell ever did at Liverpool)
Heskey < Kuyt
Owen < Torres

Smicer > Aquilani (Again LOL! Aqua has looked good for me in his last handful of games - Smicer scored one CL final goal + penalty in his whole career)
Baros > Ngog (Marginal)
Henchoz > Kyrgiakos (Firstly I dont agree with this secondly if you compare Henchoz to Agger/Skrtel as he should be then he loses hands down)
Biscan > Degen (LOL! No.)
Cheryrou = Ayala (LOL!!! Cheyrou loses Vs anyone. Plus he was a left midfielder. Ayala is a promising young centre half)
El Zhar = La Tallec (El Zhar > Le Tallec by miles)
Pongolle = Babel (We sold Pngolle on for 2 mil? Babel is still getting us offers of £9mil plus)

[The Baron]

My analysis would be like this:

GKs (Rafa):

Reina, Cavalieri > Dudek, Kirkland

CBs (Rafa):

Carragher, Skrtel, Agger, Kygriakos > Hyypia, Henchoz, Biscan, Traore

Full backs (Houllier):

Johnson, Degen, Aurelio, Insua < Carragher, Riise, Vignal, Finnan

CMs (Rafa):

Gerrard, Mascherano, Lucas, Aquilani > Hamann, Murphy, Gerrard, Diao

Wide men (Rafa):

Riera, Maxi, Babel, Benayoun > Kewell, Smicer, Cheyrou, Le Tallec

Forwards (Rafa):

Torres, Kuyt, N'gog > Owen, Baros, Heskey,


If you take into account Houllier's total backing Vs Rafa's need to sell in order to buy and the likes of Crouch, Bellamy, Alonso, Sissoko having to leave in order to keep buying and I think it's pretty clear that with the right backing we'd be much much stronger now that 6 years ago.

[Josedinho]

I think player for player Rafa's squad is better but it's the balance that he got wrong.
Fairly generious to put Kuyt in the forward category and say Torres, Kuyt, N'Gog > Owen, Baros, Heskey. 3 on 3 i'd make an arguement for Houllier's 3 but the fact that in reality it's just Torres and N'gog V Owen Baros & Heskey means that Houllier wins it.
Benitez could have had Owen on a free too.

[The Baron]

I think player for player Rafa's squad is better but it's the balance that he got wrong.
Fairly generious to put Kuyt in the forward category and say Torres, Kuyt, N'Gog > Owen, Baros, Heskey. 3 on 3 i'd make an arguement for Houllier's 3 but the fact that in reality it's just Torres and N'gog V Owen Baros & Heskey means that Houllier wins it.

Fair enough but when Houllier left Owen was off. It's a bit harsh to say he was left in the squad by Houllier as he wasn't really. Heskey had gone previous to that - like actually sold already.

It was actually Cisse Baros Pongolle Mellor if we're being technically correct.

[The Baron]

Masch's comments today put to bed the nasty tabloid rumour that Rafa was the reason players wanted out lol. The guy has said "Rafa's football is my football". Obviously he wanted to leave because of Rafa then....

I don't believe the media reports that we only have 5 mil to spend. Why pay 6 mil to get rid of Rafa then? Word is that Broughton has convinced the owners to cough up for players to make the sale of the club more attractive but then why let Rafa buy Shelvey and put a deal in place for Danny Wilson if you know he's going? I don't get it. I think something sinister is going on.

But then why get rid of him at all? The protests outside Anfield since Rafa went (amazingly barely covered by Sky who have "looked back" on Rafa's reign as though he were Satan incarnate) are worrying me. I'm really starting to think they got rid of the one guy keeping the major players at the club. It wouldn't surprise me if we had an offer for Torres/Gerrard accepted already. And without Rafa there to inflate the price (like with Alonso) I am worried abotu how much it could be for as well.

Dark times.

[Josedinho]

I think player for player Rafa's squad is better but it's the balance that he got wrong.
Fairly generious to put Kuyt in the forward category and say Torres, Kuyt, N'Gog > Owen, Baros, Heskey. 3 on 3 i'd make an arguement for Houllier's 3 but the fact that in reality it's just Torres and N'gog V Owen Baros & Heskey means that Houllier wins it.

Fair enough but when Houllier left Owen was off. It's a bit harsh to say he was left in the squad by Houllier as he wasn't really. Heskey had gone previous to that - like actually sold already.

It was actually Cisse Baros Pongolle Mellor if we're being technically correct.

Fair enough i didn't know when Heskey had gone and accept keeping Owen was pretty tough/not possible. I think my point should have been that Torres weights Rafa's side so much that you can miss the fact his forward group aren't strong. If Torres is injured you are bringing on a young untried player wheras with Houllier his back ups seemed a bit more experienced and proven. I think Baros got the golden boot at a Euros didn't he but Ngog i don't think is a full international or wasn't going to be until he switched nationality.

[Nem]

Hamann = Mascherano