Liverpool FC

[boldie]

Why would MoN not be the answer? Surely a manager with a track record of success is not a bad thing? And his man-management skills are great, as far as I can see.

[kinboshi]

Skrtel is not good enough, in fact he's a liability.  He's the big problem in defence and his presence disrupts the others.  There might be other issues in defence, but sorting him (i.e. replacing him) will help with some of the other issues.

Maxi seemed to be a good signing, but has shown next to nothing that he promised.

But there's something wrong throughout the whole side.  Everton got to every second ball, and just looked like they wanted it more.  Also, what's happened to our shooting?  Before this season I'm sure we were up there amongst the teams that had the most shots in games - this season everyone seems scared to shoot and the opposition keepers are hardly having to do anything.  I was a supporter of Woy before he joined us, but if I'm being results-orientated (and I mean in terms of our performances), then he doesn't seem to be up for the job.  O'Neill isn't the man for the job either imo.

The results I can handle, but it's the fact we're not playing well that means we're going to be in a relegation battle this season unless things change dramatically (and quickly).  If we'd lost the odd close game, then I wouldn't be worried.  But other than the Arsenal game, I can't remember a performance that I've enjoyed.

[TightEnd]

Definite answer please

Is Torres not fit or not interested, or both?

Either get him operated on and rested now

Or get rid in January

Or fix his mental outlook

I am pretty sure his half hearted bollocks of an effort/injury is affecting the whole team

[kinboshi]

Definite answer please

Is Torres not fit or not interested, or both?

Either get him operated on and rested now

Or get rid in January

Or fix his mental outlook

I am pretty sure his half hearted bollocks of an effort/injury is affecting the whole team

Not 100% fit, and because of his recurring injury he is far from 'match fitness'.  His lack of form is compounded by lethargic and lacklustre performance from virtually everyone else in the side, and the result is that we're currently crap.  I don't know why Woy isn't tweaking the formation and taking some of the attacking burden from him and maybe playing two up.  I'm sure part of his problem is confidence-based (as with many strikers).  Maybe we should sign Rooney and have two disinterested strikers up front...

[Josedinho]

I wouldn't trust O'Neil with £40mil! Madness.

whyever not?

superb long term track record in the transfer market, albeit mostly at levels below Liverpool's new budget.

What about Harweood, Reo-Coker, Sidwell, Shorey, Cueller and Davies? I reckon he spent £30-35mil on these players. They're worth less than half that now.
He let Whittingham go for next to nothing and also let Cahill go for way below what he's worth now.
Villa have a net spend of 14mil  a season for the last 5 years. Where does that money come from? Does he expect the chairman to finance it with no end and no expectation of a trophy or champions league football.
He has made some good signings but i think you have to be realistic and realise that the money spent has to come from somewhere and if he doesn't get champions league then selling players for huge profit will help.
They are obviously better off without him as if he didn't relish the challange of progressing despite losing their best player than he isn't the manager people thought.
Fergie didn't walk after Ronaldo went. He relished the challange of building a team without him.

Think we did this all back in the Summer when he quit. Milner and Young were good signings but jury still out on Downing, Delph and the players mentioned above. Average of nearly £15mil net spend each season (Liverpool's was about £3mil a year more) and never got Champions League football. Can't do that at Liverpool.

[TightEnd]

Yes I remember we did it before. Disagreed with you then and disagree now

The starting point at Villa (in terms of squad, and league position) was miles off CL football, and he got v close on £15m net spend a year. Strangely enough, much like Liverpool's starting point is now. Miles off and with a squad that is disinterested and in a lot of places not good enough

I'm biased but he's done it wherever he's been. A shoe-in for a top job when one comes up, albeit I think he's best making average players perfrom better eg At celtic and Leicester

[sweet potata!]

Yes I remember we did it before. Disagreed with you then and disagree now

The starting point at Villa (in terms of squad, and league position) was miles off CL football, and he got v close on £15m net spend a year. Strangely enough, much like Liverpool's starting point is now. Miles off and with a squad that is disinterested and in a lot of places not good enough

I'm biased but he's done it wherever he's been. A shoe-in for a top job when one comes up, albeit I think he's best making average players perfrom better eg At celtic and Leicester

I agree.

[Josedinho]

Just so i'm clear i've no problem with disagreeing just mearly stated it as I don't think either of us will have our minds changed.

Liverpool can't be miles off. Other than ageing a year since they came 2nd who have they lost? Mascherno and Alonso? and gained Meireles
Some squad changes but hardly effecting the quality -
Dossena swapped for Konchesky
Riera swapped for Jovanavic
Benayoun for Cole
Arbeloa for Johnson
They need somebody to get their team performing to its potential again but they have lost 2 major players and have £30-40mil to spend. So I don't think they are in a bad position.

When it works for O'Neill it works but when it doesn't i think it is ignored. Thats why he was able to challenge for half a season and fade away. He improved some players but the ones he didn't he ignored.
Shorey, Cuellar, Beye, Davies and Reo-Coker were all bought by him. All for decentish money and I don't think he's made any of them better. I think he has devalued them by not playing them. I don't think you can write off players that you have paid that much for but i get the impression that if he could of he would have.
Did well at Leicester and 3 out of 5 titles at Celtic is probably above average but he's he's twice quit as manager because he didn't get his own way with transfers.

[boldie]

I think it's quite clear now that Liverpool finsihing 2nd was a case of variance rather than quality.

[MANTIS01]

Talk of replacing Roy Hodgson is madness, especially at a club crying out for stability. Haven't Liverpool always given their managers time? Hodgson has won 13 trophies including several league titles with unfashionable sides in a distinguished career spanning 35 yrs. He led Malmo to 5 consecutive league titles and 2 Swedish cups, and knocked Inter out the CL. He won the league twice with Halmstad, he beat Celtic and Real Madrid while at Xamax, he turned Copenhagen into league champions, he improved the fortunes of Inter. His international experience is extensive. He lost one game with Switzerland in easy qualification for the 94 WC in a group including Portugal and Italy, actually taking 4 points off Italy. He's managed UAE at the Olympics, he qualified for the UEFA cup with Viking and made the final with Fulham and Inter. And don't forget he is the current LMA Manager of the Year.

I enjoy reading this thread too, but when people suggest Roy isn't up to the job or is tactically naive then I find that bollocks kinda irritating. The people proposed as replacements do not have a fraction of the knowledge and ability this guy's got. Also Hodgson is sensitive to the traditions of the club. Given time he will produce a fantastic team at Liverpool of that I have no doubt.

[The Baron]

Rijkaard resigns. Press in Turkey say he's about to be Liverpool manager.

[The Baron]

We are short of 3 strikers imo.  Way to much pressure on Torres to deliver!  This has been our struggle for the last 3 years.  Woy has brought in 2 donkeys, Poullsen who is a right bag of spanners!  And konshitty, well he is really poor...

We have enough creativity in the team, Woy just doesnt let them get on it with it.  We play really narrow and all down the middle, there is just no spark!  We also play so deep its mental!!  I've never known a liverpool side to play so far in our own half....

I think 100% that this team would deliver a different set of results with the right man in charge.  Even getting King kenny back till the end of the year would add some stability and much needed passion into the side!!!  As for MON!  Please not him, his man skills are worse than Raffa's were. 

Not v positive at the moment, and I dont think we can be until the right man is in place!  WOY is not that man....

Agree.

It's not a problem with Hodgson, I like the guy. He's just a bit out of his depth.

[The Baron]

Definite answer please

Is Torres not fit or not interested, or both?

Either get him operated on and rested now

Or get rid in January

Or fix his mental outlook

I am pretty sure his half hearted bollocks of an effort/injury is affecting the whole team

Tbh he's being asked to play like Zamora which is half the issue. He is best working with width and is great alongide players who make him space like Kuyt and Riera. This + injuries + decline of the team must have fucked him off no end.

[The Baron]

Agree with this on the whole but is he the man to move us on 2-3 levels at once? Not for me.

Did he over achieve at Villa? Again, not for me. He is definitely the safe bet though. Ultimate motivator and we'd definitely finish in the top 6/7 this year under him.

I think I'd edge with Rijkaard right now. He does let his front players be lazy but you could guarantee that if he did get the boot in 2 years we'd have 2-3 more superstars. The side he put together at Barca was ridic. I know he's done badly in Turkey but that's a weird league. Many top Western European coaches have failed there. Del Bosque and currently Hiddink incuded.

Yes I remember we did it before. Disagreed with you then and disagree now

The starting point at Villa (in terms of squad, and league position) was miles off CL football, and he got v close on £15m net spend a year. Strangely enough, much like Liverpool's starting point is now. Miles off and with a squad that is disinterested and in a lot of places not good enough

I'm biased but he's done it wherever he's been. A shoe-in for a top job when one comes up, albeit I think he's best making average players perfrom better eg At celtic and Leicester

[The Baron]

I think it's quite clear now that Liverpool finsihing 2nd was a case of variance rather than quality.

Yes but we were only 2-3 short of a very good side in 2009. Now we're 6/7 at least. I don't blame Hodgson, I blame the last owners, but he's not bought well with the little money he did have.