Liverpool FC

[The Baron]

There we go. Other possibilities. WP. There's hope for you yet.

Don't put words in my mouth. I haven't said they're the same and I appreciate that this situation is possibly different.

You cannot appreciate that just maybe you aren't right and they could both be down to agent influence.

So Rooney got bad advice but Torres should go with his lack of passion? Ok.....

I don't know if you've noticed all the gold and green scarves around Old Trafford? Uncertainty. In comparison you've stated Henry has a clear intention and commitment to grow the club steadily and sensibly. Certainty. If you can't see the difference between the ownership and why a player would question the future strategy of the owners at Old Trafford as opposed to those at Liverpool then ok.

If you can't see that agents, in this case involved in both transfers, can give bad advice (as Rooney's did, Man U now still unbeaten etc) then you're never going to be convinced of anything but your own bitter views. I'll stop wasting my time on a hater.

I don't think insisting uncommitted players shouldn't be playing for Liverpool is hating Liverpool but w/e you reckon. The power of an agent to destabilise a player under the Glaziers ownership is much greater than under Henry. Not sure why you don't see that and why you think that observation is bitter. It is clear as day Liverpool is moving forward now under new owners and with Dalglish back at the helm. So Liverpool's future isn't up in the air to question. Anyway, you said yourself Torres is smarting over past broken promises under the previous regime. Asking questions about the future and being pissed about the past are different. But I will say they are exactly the same if it makes you happy.

Nah, I think Liverpool fans want it to be agent influence because they love Torres and want it to be the case that he's had his head turned. The fact you say Torres isn't motivated by money, he's got much longer on his contract than Rooney had, and the ownership is much more certain makes me conclude agent influence is far less likely. I suppose I could be wrong. But I think it's much more likely that Torres just doesn't want to play for Liverpool anymore and I think that's been clear from his body language all season.

[MANTIS01]

It is a funny thing how certain sets of fans seem to want their players to have a really strong bond with the club, the area etc.

I'm happy to accept that the world has changed, they're all mercenaries and will always move on for the right offer - all that can reasonably be expected is that while they are still being paid by a club they put their shift in.

That's why it's easy to love Fabregas, although he's pretty intent on leaving, and was easy to dislike Adebayor. But I've never felt the need to think that Fabregas loves the club, loves the area/the fans - really gives a monkey about the 20-30 year future of the club etc. I'm just happy for him to excel in the here and now when he goes out to play

Fair enough. But I think there's a link between sport and heart. Take a look at Blackpool this season cos it isn't their superior quality that lead them to do the double over Liverpool. Heart gives you another 10%. So why shouldn't a manager aspire to forming a team that's got heart? Sure, a good player just turning up is sufficient and perhaps teams can work with one or two world class players of that mentality. But how many of that ilk before output of the team is seriously affected? Some players can give 100% without heart and some can't. Torres seems like the sort that needs that emotion to perform at his optimum level. I also think it devalues the contribution of players like Gerrard and Carra if we suggest all players are mercenary and it's impossible to achieve emotional commitment from them.

[nirvana]

It is a funny thing how certain sets of fans seem to want their players to have a really strong bond with the club, the area etc.

I'm happy to accept that the world has changed, they're all mercenaries and will always move on for the right offer - all that can reasonably be expected is that while they are still being paid by a club they put their shift in.

That's why it's easy to love Fabregas, although he's pretty intent on leaving, and was easy to dislike Adebayor. But I've never felt the need to think that Fabregas loves the club, loves the area/the fans - really gives a monkey about the 20-30 year future of the club etc. I'm just happy for him to excel in the here and now when he goes out to play

Fair enough. But I think there's a link between sport and heart. Take a look at Blackpool this season cos it isn't their superior quality that lead them to do the double over Liverpool. Heart gives you another 10%. So why shouldn't a manager aspire to forming a team that's got heart? Sure, a good player just turning up is sufficient and perhaps teams can work with one or two world class players of that mentality. But how many of that ilk before output of the team is seriously affected? Some players can give 100% without heart and some can't. Torres seems like the sort that needs that emotion to perform at his optimum level. I also think it devalues the contribution of players like Gerrard and Carra if we suggest all players are mercenary and it's impossible to achieve emotional commitment from them.

I agree, was just thinking that this is one area that if you set out to hire a bunch of mercenaries from all over the globe then you end up with.. a bunch of mercenaries. People like Gerard et al are kinda throwbacks. Won't be many of them in the future at the top levels. At Arsenal, we had the likes of Ray Parlour - I love that man and didn't give a monkey's about any of his limitations :-)

[kinboshi]

Gerrard nearly left in 2005 don't forget.

I don't think nationality is necessarily connected to loyalty to a club. Reina and Kuyt's commitment to the club and the city (both in the pitch and in other activities, the same with Rafa and Kenny) is fantastic. Every club has players like that.

But in most cases, players are doing jobs and are thinking about their relatively short careers and making the most from it. Of course, their decisions can be wrong especially with the greedy, self-interested agents involved.

Liverpool is bigger than any one player, and when the irreplaceable Keegan left, who did Paisley sign as a more than adequate replacement? But it's the way Torres has gone about it and the timing that probably hurts the most - from a player who seemed to "get" what Liverpool is all about. He'll never be hated at Liverpool, but it'll be like seeing a stunning ex with someone else when you know you appreciated her more than her current fella.

Of course, he might not leave. But maybe I'm just being optimistic.

To be honest, what's happening with Torres is no different to the Adam or Suarez situations.

[The Baron]

Guillem Balague who broke the story and broke the news of Torres wanting to come to Liverpool long before he came says this is nothing to do with money - it's about competing for trophies.

I know the summer is more of a buyer's market but this isn't a random Joe it's the best striker in the world (when fit) and I think selling in the summer will only add to his value via an auction.

Mascherano and Alonso both played really well after they'd decided they were going, Torres can manage 6 months. 70% Torres >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> almost any other striker.

[Waz1892]

just heard from a friend....(ex friend if this isn't true.) ...Torres sacked his agent....and withdrawn his request...........

unknown source yet..but chasing...

[The Baron]

Anyone hear?

He says that the players are the stars of the show on and off the field..he even suggested to Saint john that the players of 40 years ago would have took advantage in the same way they do today.. dummy out toys out iwant out and its my show and im off...

Snods (an evertonian for those who dont know) went mental, To suggest that St John would be so dis-loyal, a man who paid the rent of struggling past players, when he himself helped set up the players union.

Balague went on to say he knows Fernando wanted out in the summer, he spoke with him in South Africa and suggested that Liverpool were 5 years from winning trophies and that he should move on..and he WANTED the city move!

Balague said its dis-appointing as a fan that Liverpool are not showing any Ambition.

Snods then came back with, They have new owners, no debt, lots of money and a new world class signing to start going forward...He said Chelsea have Lampard 32, Drogba about to turn 33, Terry 30, Malouda 30, Ashley Cole closing in on his twighlight and the rest are average players on the wrong side of 27.

Balague suggested that Chelsea are showing ambition by trying to get Torres

Balague then sugggested that Torres will go into training tomorrow and may be thinking what have i done, Balague reckons that the transfer request was written before Friday and before the rapid Developments in the Suarez deal occurred, however Torres agent submitted the Request after all this when it should have been submitted before hand.

Balague is now in a position were he has no idea were the saga is going after he was the one to break the news early on friday.

He kept saying Fernando Loves the club he Loves the fans, but he is 26 and cant wait til he is 30-31 to start winning titles.

[The Baron]

Balague on Liverpool City Radio ^^

[Waz1892]

Interesting to say the least.

In training tomorrow, a case of the big guns persuading him that the very very short term will be the turnaround he (and all of us)  is clearly looking for??!!

Be nice if someone from NESV comes over...to show how much he is wanted here.....maybe some legs in it?

[boldie]

Interesting to say the least.

In training tomorrow, a case of the big guns persuading him that the very very short term will be the turnaround he (and all of us)  is clearly looking for??!!

Be nice if someone from NESV comes over...to show how much he is wanted here.....maybe some legs in it?

Very much this for me. I would hope that someone at Liverpool has told NESV that flying over would be a good idea.

[George2Loose]

U should sell him imo. Just watching him on the pitch is painful. He clearly doesnt want to wear the shirt anymore

[LeedsRhodesy]

news starting to come out that Fernando Torres has signed and Anelka signs for liverpool

[paulhouk03]

You read that in the sun or something?

[LeedsRhodesy]

You read that in the sun or something?

[/] the sun is printed on a sunday

[kinboshi]

Looks like he probably will go, but Liverpool want £50M and I don't think anything has been finalised today on the deal.

Where's your "breaking news" source?