Liverpool FC

[arbboy]

people forget rio was given a 9 month ban from all football 10 years ago not for failing a drugs test but not turning up for the test (some will argue its the same thing).  It was his first offence.  That penalty looking back looks incredibly harsh given the lack of positive tests in football in england at the top level in general.

You could argue that things like this contributed to the relatively low number of drugs though. Getting banned for missing the test means you can't hide.

sure i understand that but 10 years ago the testing was relatively frequent and there were literally no fails ever for performance enhancing drugs and only a handful for rec drugs so on the balance of probability missing a drugs test whether deliberate or accidental given the tiny % chance of him actually failing the test based on figures of fails in the sport at the time made the penalty for a first offence incredibly harsh.  If it had been a USA or JAM 100m runner then i would agree with your thoughts more.

[Ironside]

people forget rio was given a 9 month ban from all football 10 years ago not for failing a drugs test but not turning up for the test (some will argue its the same thing).  It was his first offence.  That penalty looking back looks incredibly harsh given the lack of positive tests in football in england at the top level in general.

You could argue that things like this contributed to the relatively low number of drugs though. Getting banned for missing the test means you can't hide.

sure i understand that but 10 years ago the testing was relatively frequent and there were literally no fails ever for performance enhancing drugs and only a handful for rec drugs so on the balance of probability missing a drugs test whether deliberate or accidental given the tiny % chance of him actually failing the test based on figures of fails in the sport at the time made the penalty for a first offence incredibly harsh.  If it had been a USA or JAM 100m runner then i would agree with your thoughts more.

you not think that he might have missed the test because he knew he would fail?

[arbboy]

people forget rio was given a 9 month ban from all football 10 years ago not for failing a drugs test but not turning up for the test (some will argue its the same thing).  It was his first offence.  That penalty looking back looks incredibly harsh given the lack of positive tests in football in england at the top level in general.

You could argue that things like this contributed to the relatively low number of drugs though. Getting banned for missing the test means you can't hide.

sure i understand that but 10 years ago the testing was relatively frequent and there were literally no fails ever for performance enhancing drugs and only a handful for rec drugs so on the balance of probability missing a drugs test whether deliberate or accidental given the tiny % chance of him actually failing the test based on figures of fails in the sport at the time made the penalty for a first offence incredibly harsh.  If it had been a USA or JAM 100m runner then i would agree with your thoughts more.

you not think that he might have missed the test because he knew he would fail?

He might have for sure but given how few footballers failed tests as a % of tests taken its very hard to say that for sure.  Given a max ban for a failed test was 2 years a 9 month ban for a test not sat seemed incredibly harsh for a first offence when he could easily have been retested the next day/week if they suspected anything or had a tip off about him possibly failing.

[kinboshi]

Surprised, but pleased, to see FIFA had the balls to ban him from all football.

Liverpool either now commit to getting him serious professional help or sack him. Position is otherwise untenable IMO.

Rules change when you are worth £80m.  Sad fact of life.  He never gets sacked.

Sheff United have resigned a convicted rapist who was on their books because he is a good striker for the level they are it (as it happens having done a fair bit of reading on the case i am far from convinced he should be but he is)

No morals in football there havent been for years not a new thing

Rape and beating up your wife or girlfriend seems to be a much lesser sin than nibbling on three footballers (all of whom survived the vicious attacks I think).  Yes, Suarez deserves his punishment - you don't go around biting people - but the 'mockrage' from people on social media, in the actual media, is ludicrous.

[kinboshi]

Still not sure why Liverpool should sack him?  Cut off their nose (or bite it off) to spite their face?

[mulhuzz]

Still not sure why Liverpool should sack him?  Cut off their nose (or bite it off) to spite their face?

Because he's an embarrassment and claiming he did nothing wrong and will not learn, it seems.

Because it will only get worse.

[arbboy]

Still not sure why Liverpool should sack him?  Cut off their nose (or bite it off) to spite their face?

Because he's an embarrassment and claiming he did nothing wrong and will not learn, it seems.

Because it will only get worse.

#

Is deliberately biting people 3 times a worse offence than deliberately elbowing (100% not accidental and 100% premeditated) a player in the head 3 times during a football match?  If so what ban would you all give to a player guilty of 3 such elbows in 3 diff games over 4 years?

[George2Loose]

He's getting as much stick as he is cos he's a vile human being with a history of racism and generally not behaving in a professional manner

[arbboy]

He's getting as much stick as he is cos he's a vile human being with a history of racism and generally not behaving in a professional manner

So are numerous people at the top of the vast majority of businesses (not racist but being a vile human being).  Football is a business (a brutal dirty business) i have never understood why sportspeople should be role models for children it makes no sense to me at all that some kid from the streets who is uniquely skilled to play a sport should have his own personal actions held to responsibility to how children should look up to them.  Any more than why should Phil Ivey or Tony Bloom be considered role models because they are at the top of their chosen profession.  The vast majority of people at the top of any profession are vile/selfish/self centred/ego maniacs.  You have to be in most businesses to even get a sniff at being at the top.

[George2Loose]

Well I think people underestimate how far just being nice and courteous gets u in life. I know plenty of successful people who have a ruthless side but only use it when needed. Most of the time they get on with people

[arbboy]

Well I think people underestimate how far just being nice and courteous gets u in life. I know plenty of successful people who have a ruthless side but only use it when needed. Most of the time they get on with people

sure thats why i said numerous and not all.  Always a lot of these polite people are very good PR merchants and when the shit hits the fan behind closed doors they are nothing like the public person their PR guru's make them out to be.  Suar is exactly the same.  He is put up with and allowed his own way because he makes his paymasters bucket loads of money and they turn a blind eye to his actions.  If a £3k a week liverpool reverse centre half had done this he would have been sacked on the spot.  Sad but true and reality in any top level of business which is driven by profit and greed which football most certainly is.

[mulhuzz]

Still not sure why Liverpool should sack him?  Cut off their nose (or bite it off) to spite their face?

Because he's an embarrassment and claiming he did nothing wrong and will not learn, it seems.

Because it will only get worse.

#

Is deliberately biting people 3 times a worse offence than deliberately elbowing (100% not accidental and 100% premeditated) a player in the head 3 times during a football match?  If so what ban would you all give to a player guilty of 3 such elbows in 3 diff games over 4 years?

Yes, I think biting is worse. I also think issues of moral equivalence are tricky.

In this particular case (with the kind of elbow I'm imagining) I think it's pretty clear biting is worse. And by some margin. That's not even to say I think it should be (cf moral equivalence) but it *is*.


How do you compare it to spitting on someone though? Or to racism? Or to a sexual assault? Or to assault on a fan? Or manager? Or a player assaulted by manager?

It's tricky, this moral equivalence thing. I think all FIFA - or anyone else, can do is try and make the best decision possible.

The fact is that someone should have intervened and got him help earlier. No doubt about it.

[Kmac84]

He's getting as much stick as he is cos he's a vile human being with a history of racism and generally not behaving in a professional manner

You could level the same charge at many politicians.  "british jobs for british workers" was a labour slogan designed to ramp up racial tension.  

The tories sendng out vans with signs calling for illegal immigrants to go home was pretty much the same.  

The racial abuse given out by so many others, expecially the non direct stuff is more sickening that Suares.  I think, although he has a a bit of a past he gets much more bad press than many others.  

He should definitely have been punished for what he did, but 9 international games and 4 month suspension seems incredibly harsh to me.  

More so, I think its harsh on Liverpool, they shouldn't be puniched because Suares was out of order.  

Rather than bad the guy and hang him out to dry perhaps we should question why he does it.  I am no psychologist but to my eye the guy clearly has problems, the authorites should concentrate on getting those resolved imo.  

[Karabiner]

I get the point about moral equivalence but isn't what Suarez did closest to spitting?

I think Vieira got a six-match ban for spitting in Neil Ruddock's face, so I'm damn sure it would have been ten games had he done something similar subsequently and presumably a lot longer had it occurred for a third time.

Interesting perspective from my favoutite blogger:

www.arseblog.com

[DungBeetle]

"The racial abuse given out by so many others, expecially the non direct stuff is more sickening that Suares. "

You think Gordon Brown saying "British jobs for British workers" is worse than what Suarez said to Evra?