Liverpool FC

[The Baron]

The saddest bit about this incident is seemingly intelligent people are intent on defending an individual who has been found guilty by an independent panel.

I'm still unsure as to exactly why Liverpool fans have this ridiculous victim mentality.

You have me wrong here. I'm looking forward to the FA's report and if he did it, as I said before, throw the book at him. Even mentioning Evra's colour would be wrong imo.

There are understandably a lot of Liverpool fans not happy with a decision based on Evra's word alone (according to our club statement) considering he's made accusations of racism 3 times in his past, all of which were thrown out and once he was personally singled out by a panel as basically being a liar. Not exactly a stellar witness.

Regardless of what happens to Suarez let's not kid ourselves that Evra has used the racism card willy nilly in the past because quite simply, he has. That is your acuser, whether Suarez is racist or not.

When you say throw the book at him, presumably you mean sack him? After all, if you or I were racist at work we'd be sacked.

Your club statement looks like it's been written by an angry 19 year old. It's a pathetic statement that a club of your stature should never have consented to put on its official website. The club should have kept its counsel, said it would wait for the written report and then go from there. The way in which it has gone on the attack means surely that were if he to be found guilty yet again by the appeal process that they would have backed themselves into a corner over the whole issue.

As has been said, post some official proof re: your Evra claims.

Well as I said before John Mackie admitted racially abusing a Sheffield Utd player and he got a 3 game ban. As someone of mixed race do I think that's too lenient? Yes. But there should be consistency.

I too don't think the club statement was brilliant. The FA must have pretty good reasons for their decision (you would think) but if what we're saying is true then maybe they don't?

The problem is with that sort of statement they are simply stirring the hornet's nest and consenting to create a victim mentality for the club as a whole.

Saying something like this:

It appears to us that the FA were determined to bring charges against Luis Suarez, even before interviewing him at the beginning of November.

is not only ridiculous but also embarrassing.

Understand your point re: Mackie, but the reality is that players at top clubs are under far more scrutiny and as a result will get longer punishments due to the media coverage it generates etc. Doesn't mean it's right, but you can somewhat understand it.

Also I see you managed to skate over my initial question... Were he to be found guilty again (and it will be a new 3 man panel that decides) would you agree that the only course of action would be to sack him?

TBH creating a siege mentality might be a good move.

I don't know about whether sacking him would be the way to go or not. I thought the FA and Evra have both said he's not a racist? I'll try to have a think on it and come back to you. I appreciate that in other fields of employment racism would be gross misconduct but until I see the FA's report I'm not sure that's the case at all.

[Josedinho]

Mantis and Solaris have just proved why it's a pointless debate at the moment.

Think the word Negro does exist over here.

if we assume it to be true that he was responding to Evra by saying, "porque, negrito?" that is still completely unacceptable.

And Solaris I never mentioned cultural differences. I specifically mentioned language. I don't see how we can take offence to a word that doesn't exist here. Surely we can find out what it means. If it's racist ban him, if it's not don't.
References to colour happen all the time. Debate on how many black managers there are in the game, MOBO awards, First black president etc. They may not be necessary but they happen.

[The Baron]

I'm still unsure as to exactly why Liverpool fans have this ridiculous victim mentality.

Proof pls. Links. Facts. And all that.

[millidonk]

I heard Suarez simply asked Evra for a Nicorette as he has a bit of a smoking problem. It was just a linguistic faux pas.

Joking aside, his punishment is in no way consistent with any other of the like, the fact that it has media coverage and he pays in the top flight should have no relevance, a foul is a foul, offside is offside, (proved) racism is racism no matter what league you play in, the punishments should be consistent throughout all.

Think he has 15 days or something to appeal and can play during this time. See what happens during this.

The lack of solid evidence is a joke, it shouldn't matter that it is Evra and he has a history regarding such accusations, it should be weighed up on the evidence at hand, which it seems is not sufficient to brand Suarez as a racist.

The saddest bit about this incident is seemingly intelligent people are intent on defending an individual who has been found guilty by an independent panel.

I'm still unsure as to exactly why Liverpool fans have this ridiculous victim mentality.

I find these statements rather comical. In no way is this the saddest bit about the incident. Many a time a so called 'independent panel' makes an incorrect decision, hence why there is an appeal process in place. So you are saying anyone who challenges a verdict is not intelligent??

I shouldn't even entertain your sweeping statement regarding Liverpool fans having a ridiculous victim mentality, but as you are so keen on official proof being provided where is yours to back this garbage up?

At the moment as it stands, he has been found guilty by an INDEPENDENT three man panel.

He has the right to appeal, but should he do so and he is found guilty AGAIN by another independent three man panel, do you accept he should be sacked by your club?

It's interesting that you accuse me of making a sweeping statement, then proceed to claim the lack of evidence is a joke. Where you at the hearing? Are you privy to facts that the rest of us aren't? Are or you toeing the club line of Luis being a victim perhaps?

Thanks for not brushing over my points..

No, I don't accept he SHOULD be sacked, he should have to carry out his punishment as it stands now and then be allowed to carry on as before. Overlooking the fact that a so called independent panel can be wrong more than once, I also believe in redemption. However If he happened to be sacked as a result, I would of course accept it,  I wouldn't like it nor would I be inclined to think it was the right decision.

Unfortunately I was not at the hearing.  Your statement is sweeping and is simply erroneous, however I will close in the same vain as the majority of your retort. errr have you met every Liverpool fan in the world, were they all victims?

Its good to know you think anyone who challenges a decision from an Independent panel is not intelligent though..

[Solaris]

Mantis and Solaris have just proved why it's a pointless debate at the moment.

Think the word Negro does exist over here.

if we assume it to be true that he was responding to Evra by saying, "porque, negrito?" that is still completely unacceptable.

And Solaris I never mentioned cultural differences. I specifically mentioned language. I don't see how we can take offence to a word that doesn't exist here. Surely we can find out what it means. If it's racist ban him, if it's not don't.
References to colour happen all the time. Debate on how many black managers there are in the game, MOBO awards, First black president etc. They may not be necessary but they happen.

Er, correct me if I'm wrong, but languages and culture go hand in hand do they not? You wouldn't talk about South Americans without acknowledging that they speak Spanish etc.

As has been said time and time again, we have had zero access to the facts and as a result it is pointless speculating (as you are) on the meaning of this word or that word as we aren't even sure that it is the word Suarez is supposed to have said.

Your last few sentences are a load of rubbish and I fail to see how they're even remotely relevant.

[Solaris]

No, I don't accept he SHOULD be sacked, he should have to carry out his punishment as it stands now and then be allowed to carry on as before.

If you were found guilty of making racist remarks to a customer/client/colleague at work, would you expect to be sacked?

Sadly had this been a player who had fallen out of favour, i.e. Konchesky last season I'm pretty sure you'd have hung him out to dry.

I'm still unsure as to exactly why Liverpool fans have this ridiculous victim mentality.

Proof pls. Links. Facts. And all that.

It's an opinion. One in which I am fully entitled to have.

I don't wish to bring up the issues either as it would involve Heysel, Athens and the like. This is predominantly a poker forum and I don't wish to get into all that.

[millidonk]

No, I don't accept he SHOULD be sacked, he should have to carry out his punishment as it stands now and then be allowed to carry on as before.

If you were found guilty of making racist remarks to a customer/client/colleague at work, would you expect to be sacked?

Sadly had this been a player who had fallen out of favour, i.e. Konchesky last season I'm pretty sure you'd have hung him out to dry.

If they could prove it beyond reasonable doubt, then yes, as this is clearly written in my T&Cs that such act is a sackable offence. This would have to be proven using hard evidence not just going off the word of another person. Also just to clarify to you my boss putting together 3 people and calling them an independent panel and them telling me I am guilty would not be sufficient for this. If they claimed it was I would of course be appealing and sue them for many $$$$

I take it by your selective quoting and the fact you have refused to answer numerous points I have made you are happy to concede this argument and continue on your journey of mindless trolling.

[kinboshi]

Mantis and Solaris have just proved why it's a pointless debate at the moment.

Think the word Negro does exist over here.

if we assume it to be true that he was responding to Evra by saying, "porque, negrito?" that is still completely unacceptable.

And Solaris I never mentioned cultural differences. I specifically mentioned language. I don't see how we can take offence to a word that doesn't exist here. Surely we can find out what it means. If it's racist ban him, if it's not don't.
References to colour happen all the time. Debate on how many black managers there are in the game, MOBO awards, First black president etc. They may not be necessary but they happen.

Er, correct me if I'm wrong, but languages and culture go hand in hand do they not? You wouldn't talk about South Americans without acknowledging that they speak Spanish etc.

As has been said time and time again, we have had zero access to the facts and as a result it is pointless speculating (as you are) on the meaning of this word or that word as we aren't even sure that it is the word Suarez is supposed to have said.

Your last few sentences are a load of rubbish and I fail to see how they're even remotely relevant.

You can have the same language as another country, but treat words within the language very differently.

Say "fuck" at a poker table in the UK, you'll be fine. Do it in the US and you get a penalty as it's deemed offensive.

[MANTIS01]

The Oxford English Dictionary includes the word Negrito so how doesn't it exist here?

Negrito means black dude.

[The Baron]

No, I don't accept he SHOULD be sacked, he should have to carry out his punishment as it stands now and then be allowed to carry on as before.

If you were found guilty of making racist remarks to a customer/client/colleague at work, would you expect to be sacked?

Sadly had this been a player who had fallen out of favour, i.e. Konchesky last season I'm pretty sure you'd have hung him out to dry.

He's been banned for making reference to Evra's ethnicity. Pretty amazing as Evra has apparently admitted making a similar reference to Suarez being South American.

[Solaris]

No, I don't accept he SHOULD be sacked, he should have to carry out his punishment as it stands now and then be allowed to carry on as before.

If you were found guilty of making racist remarks to a customer/client/colleague at work, would you expect to be sacked?

Sadly had this been a player who had fallen out of favour, i.e. Konchesky last season I'm pretty sure you'd have hung him out to dry.

If they could prove it beyond reasonable doubt, then yes, as this is clearly written in my T&Cs that such act is a sackable offence. This would have to be proven using hard evidence not just going off the word of another person. Also just to clarify to you my boss putting together 3 people and calling them an independent panel and them telling me I am guilty would not be sufficient for this. If they claimed it was I would of course be appealing and sue them for many $$$$

I take it by your selective quoting and the fact you have refused to answer numerous points I have made you are happy to concede this argument and continue on your journey of mindless trolling.

Yet again you are assuming that everything you read is true whilst complaining of others making generalised and sweeping statements. It's strange to say the least.

It does make me laugh somewhat that you feel that despite being found guilty by one panel, were he to be found guilty again by a separate panel then it doesn't actually mean he's guilty as panel's are, "capable of making mistakes" and bla bla bla. In effect you've already decided, despite the evidence seemingly being to the contrary, that Suarez simply isn't guilty.

That alone is why it's a waste of my time to argue with someone who has made his mind up.

[MANTIS01]

Mantis and Solaris have just proved why it's a pointless debate at the moment.

Think the word Negro does exist over here.

if we assume it to be true that he was responding to Evra by saying, "porque, negrito?" that is still completely unacceptable.

And Solaris I never mentioned cultural differences. I specifically mentioned language. I don't see how we can take offence to a word that doesn't exist here. Surely we can find out what it means. If it's racist ban him, if it's not don't.
References to colour happen all the time. Debate on how many black managers there are in the game, MOBO awards, First black president etc. They may not be necessary but they happen.

Er, correct me if I'm wrong, but languages and culture go hand in hand do they not? You wouldn't talk about South Americans without acknowledging that they speak Spanish etc.

As has been said time and time again, we have had zero access to the facts and as a result it is pointless speculating (as you are) on the meaning of this word or that word as we aren't even sure that it is the word Suarez is supposed to have said.

Your last few sentences are a load of rubbish and I fail to see how they're even remotely relevant.

You can have the same language as another country, but treat words within the language very differently.

Say "fuck" at a poker table in the UK, you'll be fine. Do it in the US and you get a penalty as it's deemed offensive.

Hence if I was a UK player going to US I wouldn't say fuck as the people in that country find it offensive and I would get a penalty

[outragous76]

It's not just the words either! You can say it means x or y, but also look at his mannerisms when he says it. It's quite clear whatever he is saying is meant to be derogatory

[The Baron]

I'm still unsure as to exactly why Liverpool fans have this ridiculous victim mentality.

Proof pls. Links. Facts. And all that.

It's an opinion. One in which I am fully entitled to have.

I don't wish to bring up the issues either as it would involve Heysel, Athens and the like. This is predominantly a poker forum and I don't wish to get into all that.

Ah I see what you did there. Had a guess. See at least I posted some decent evidence that Evra is full of shit. Your opinion is just that, an opinion. Thanks for clarifying.

[Solaris]

Mantis and Solaris have just proved why it's a pointless debate at the moment.

Think the word Negro does exist over here.

if we assume it to be true that he was responding to Evra by saying, "porque, negrito?" that is still completely unacceptable.

And Solaris I never mentioned cultural differences. I specifically mentioned language. I don't see how we can take offence to a word that doesn't exist here. Surely we can find out what it means. If it's racist ban him, if it's not don't.
References to colour happen all the time. Debate on how many black managers there are in the game, MOBO awards, First black president etc. They may not be necessary but they happen.

Er, correct me if I'm wrong, but languages and culture go hand in hand do they not? You wouldn't talk about South Americans without acknowledging that they speak Spanish etc.

As has been said time and time again, we have had zero access to the facts and as a result it is pointless speculating (as you are) on the meaning of this word or that word as we aren't even sure that it is the word Suarez is supposed to have said.

Your last few sentences are a load of rubbish and I fail to see how they're even remotely relevant.

You can have the same language as another country, but treat words within the language very differently.

Say "fuck" at a poker table in the UK, you'll be fine. Do it in the US and you get a penalty as it's deemed offensive.

Suarez spent 5 years in Holland playing for Ajax and Groningen. The idea he doesn't know what is offensive and what isn't is a load of crap and you know it.

Had he just jumped off the plane from Uruguay, I'd be somewhat sympathetic to his plight, but he hasn't.