Big draw.........get it in?

[deepreacher]

Stars Warmup just after first break....... Have just been moved to this table so no reads.. maybe a loose call pre flop, but getting nice price to flop big....


PokerStars Game #10597483582: Tournament #52919616, $200+$15 Hold'em No Limit - Level V (200/400) - 2007/06/24 - 14:02:21 (ET)
Table '52919616 46' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: 74pokershark (16000 in chips)
Seat 2: switzie (11895 in chips)
Seat 3: kenito7 (9500 in chips)
Seat 4: ryanut03 (11100 in chips)
Seat 5: whitedan2001 (17025 in chips)
Seat 6: 777MORTEN (16000 in chips)
Seat 7: Jemisis (8900 in chips)
Seat 8: GRAPPA (16000 in chips)
Seat 9: Faar1 (16605 in chips)
ryanut03: posts small blind 200
whitedan2001: posts big blind 400
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to whitedan2001 [ ]
777MORTEN: folds
Jemisis: folds
GRAPPA: raises 600 to 1000
Faar1: folds
74pokershark: calls 1000
switzie: folds
kenito7: folds
ryanut03: folds
whitedan2001: calls 600
*** FLOP *** [ ]
whitedan2001: checks
GRAPPA: bets 3000

ok so massive draw, whats the plan. Check raising looks good to me or is leading out better?

[Smart Money]

I think check-raising is definitely the better play. We have [most likely] the strongest hand right now (despite the fact that it's not a made hand) so we want to get chips in the pot. Despite being the favourite, we'd prefer to take what's in the pot already risk free- and check/raising gives us enough fold equity to make the move the most profitable. It also gains us extra chips from an AK/Q's continuation bet.

[AdamG]

check raise it all in ! u got the odds against any continuation betting hand here

[deepreacher]

yeah check raise all in is pretty standard, he decided to make his heroic call with 88..... i miss all my outs of course

[AdamG]

unlucky laddy good play though

[Moskvich]

I wonder if a check-raise that doesn't put you all-in might be stronger here. With your monster draw you're happy to get all your chips in, but perhaps it's better to do it in two stages, possibly increasing your fold equity. If you shove it all in here it screams draw and looks like you don't want a call. If you c/r to 8500 or so, on the other hand, I think you might give him more of a headache. You've committed yourself to the pot so he has to fold AK/AQ anyway. If he shoves over the top then nothing lost, you've got to the same point as if you check-pushed. If he flat calls then you can stick your remaining 8000 in on the turn. If, as in this case, he's got a middling pair, then any overcard gives him a problem.

Obviously you're slight favourite here anyway, but with a comfortable 17k in chips I'd have thought you ideally don't want to get them all in the middle on a coinflip. Anything that increases your potential fold equity has to be a good thing, and I suspect that the check-shove line might actually reduce your FE rather than increase it. Thoughts anyone?

[doubleup]

I wonder if a check-raise that doesn't put you all-in might be stronger here. With your monster draw you're happy to get all your chips in, but perhaps it's better to do it in two stages, possibly increasing your fold equity. If you shove it all in here it screams draw and looks like you don't want a call.

I was thinking the same thing - I particularly like it because an ace on the turn is going to give him a difficult call when you push.

[Smart Money]

I wonder if a check-raise that doesn't put you all-in might be stronger here. With your monster draw you're happy to get all your chips in, but perhaps it's better to do it in two stages, possibly increasing your fold equity. If you shove it all in here it screams draw and looks like you don't want a call.

I was thinking the same thing - I particularly like it because an ace on the turn is going to give him a difficult call when you push.

I agree. I wouldn't be putting them all in- just enough to show that I'm committed to the pot. If he calls, then I'm pushing on any turn.

[kinboshi]

Just to digress slightly from the original post - how is everyone playing this in a cash game (assuming everyone has similar stacks that are about 100xBB)?

[boldie]

Just to digress slightly from the original post - how is everyone playing this in a cash game (assuming everyone has similar stacks that are about 100xBB)?

I lead out with this in a cash game if he's got a big over pair I don't want the flush coming to scare him off...hell even in most tourneys I lead out here and get my chips in the middle when he raises all in.

[The_Diamond]

What did 74pokershark do? He was to act before you.

CRAI is fine. With deeper stacks I'd bet out and then 3 bet all in if I'm raised.

[NoflopsHomer]

Against a poor player, you'd be better check/calling.

[The_Diamond]

Against a poor player, you'd be better check/calling.

why?

[deepreacher]

What did 74pokershark do? He was to act before you.

CRAI is fine. With deeper stacks I'd bet out and then 3 bet all in if I'm raised.

He folded as far as i can remember

Just to digress slightly from the original post - how is everyone playing this in a cash game (assuming everyone has similar stacks that are about 100xBB)?

I lead out with this in a cash game if he's got a big over pair I don't want the flush coming to scare him off...hell even in most tourneys I lead out here and get my chips in the middle when he raises all in.

I would probably bet then 4 bet all in in a cash game, although I generally know who im playing against in a cash game as oppossed to complete randoms in the big stars tournys, so it is player dependant.