Why would you do that?

[suzanne]

Apart from playing charity, blonde and this womans tourneys this was actually my first "casino game" as in I knew no one and didnt have a clue about what was the norm.

Thats why I am asking.

Any comments on the second situation please.

[suzanne]

2 choices now allin or fold

why do you think these are your 2 choices?
[/quote]

The guy was drunk as a skunk and it was pretty obvious he was making a stand. I dont think he did have the ace but a flat call just was not an option it was all or nothing

[Moskvich]

Any comments on the second situation please

Do you mean whether you should have called in this situation (purely from a poker point of view) - or whether you somehow did the wrong thing in terms of etiquette..?

Of course, you did absolutely nothing wrong in terms of etiqutte. They're your chips to do with as you want. Absolutely no reason for anyone to get annoyed with you for calling... And he's got no right to get angry at you for doing so. You're getting short on chips, decide to gamble and treble up. That's all there is to it.

It seems to me there's two completely separate bits to your concerns about how this tournament went. There's the "physical" rules, if you like, about not picking your cards up and so on. But you shouldn't confuse these rules, the etiquette part, with the poker part. Doesn't matter whether it's online or live, you call when you want, raise when you want, fold when you want. Don't be intimidated by other people into doing anything else. If the odd idiot gets angry at you for doing something they don't want you to do... well, they've probably got more to learn about poker than you have.

Good luck next time!

[OatFedGoat]

I've done several "Online to Live" "teach-ins" (not game play, just etiquette & procedures), the latest being on Saturday at The Broadway.

Ah is that what that was? I thought it was just an excellent opportunity for you to assign embarassing nicknames to us!
"Halifax" hated being called it for the whole day, so I went with your other option of 9,6 man!

[tikay]

I've done several "Online to Live" "teach-ins" (not game play, just etiquette & procedures), the latest being on Saturday at The Broadway.

Ah is that what that was? I thought it was just an excellent opportunity for you to assign embarassing nicknames to us!
"Halifax" hated being called it for the whole day, so I went with your other option of 9,6 man!

Ah, bless Halifax. What a cool guy he was! Big, too.....

I always assign nicks to everyone I meet, often where they come from, especially if foreign.

[tikay]

Yes the blinds were 25/50 with so many limpers I thought my 200 raise was enough to say I have a hand take me on.

I did not want to raise too high because I was hoping the flop would be low and if it wasnt then I could bow out without losing too many chips. The ace on the flop was what I did not want to see but I think 200 is a safe bet with KK preflop. Dont forget this is in the first stage of the tourney and I really dont want to commit myself with KK in a  freezeout early doors.

My question was more..is a raise in that situation out of order as the guy seemed really peeved off that I had done that?

Suzanne.

1) IGNORE his comments. They are junk & meaningless, & there is no etiquette or convention saying you should not Raise early doors.

2) It is YOUR money you are playing with. So, within the Rules, you do what you damn wll like with your chips. When I get told to "check it down, there's a man all-in" I sometimes bet deliberately just to make the point. "Look sunshine, I play MY way with MY money. OK?"

[OatFedGoat]

I would tend to agree with everyone here. It sounds like you were simply unfortuante to have an undesirable at your table.

I too only recently played my first live event, but had the disadvantage of being "taught" by tikay on ettiquette etc prior to starting!

Seriously though, I would not see anything wrong with playing how you like, betting what you want to. Hell if you wish to bet all in preflop with 27o then they are YOUR chips to throw away, not anyone elses. Afterall, if you make an error or a poor bet it is likely to be others at the table who benefit. It's not your fault if their hand isn't good enough to call a raise with no matter how big or small your bet is.

[Laxie]

I played in that comp too Suzanne and we had a guy at our table raising every second hand anywhere from 500 to 1k when blinds were only at 25/50.  The other lads at the table didn't look pleased, but the only comment anyone made was, 'So much for a friendly game of cards.'  Didn't stop him raising every second hand, in fact he went into overdrive after the comment was made, but we caught him out within 10 minutes.  

I had QQ and raised it to 250 guy next to me calls, aggressive guy re-raises to 750 and we both call.  Flop came all rags and he bet 1k, I re-raised another 1k because I KNEW he hadn't hit.  Only problem...while it pushed the aggressive player out, the other guy who was in the pot called the re-raise.  Lucky for me, he was a laid back kind of guy and we played it gentle on the turn and river...he had KK in his hand.  He was worried I had either AA or a set and I KNEW I was in trouble with me QQ.  Lost the pot and was badly short stacked after that, but 'aggressive guy' chilled from then on because he'd been found out and the rest weren't as quick to fold to him anymore.  

You know how to play the game.  I was sat at your table long enough to see it.  Your only problem was picking up the cards off the table.  Not a big deal in my eyes, but for your own protection, it's better if you don't.  Anyone with a friend stood at the rail behind you can see what you have and signal to their friend on the other side of the table.  That was the first thing I thought of when I saw you pick up your cards on the night.  Was going to say something, but didn't want you to feel uncomfortable.  Take no notice of the moody/aggressive players.  I reckon they do that to throw everyone off their game anyway.  Play it your way and ignore the apes.

[Claw75]

Suzanne,

don't worry about it - I can't see you did anything wrong in the way you played.  I think your biggest problem (and I recognise it because I'm the same) is lack of confidence in your game.  If you're not experienced playing live and end up in a big 'local' game like that, it can be easy to feel that the rest of the people there must know better than you.  Fact is you were probably a better player than the majority on your table.

I had a situation in an online STT the other day.  We were three handed, and I was in the BB.  Short stack UTG went all in, and SB flat called.  I had a nice hand - I didn't want to check it down three handed, so I raised to try to get the SB out of the pot.  SB started calling me an idiot, saying I shouldn't have done that, we should have just checked it down etc.  My response (which I seem to be using a lot at the moment) "I'll play my own game, thank you".  I went on to win it and typed 'gg' to SB guy who'd finished second.  He typed a response, but it's not to be repeated here

Just play your own game, and don't worry about what other people say.  I know it's harder in a live environment, but experience and increased confidence will help.  There were 150+ runners in that game, you don't finish 17th by playing badly.  (and did we not clean up at the cash table afterwards?!?!)

[Laxie]

Was DELIGHTED when you both showed me the chips you'd gather in just a few hands at the cash table.  Was giggling away mad when they asked you to come back and play some more...poor lads thought they'd win em back off ya.  Great news to hear you continued the demolition.  Meant to ask how you'd got on when you took them up on the offer, but the Coronas started to kick in.   

[MANTIS01]

Hi Suzanne

Making the transition from on-line play to the live game can be difficult at first. Of course the most notable difference is that your opponents are sitting around the table with you and this is something that people can initially find quite intimidating. If your intention is simply to have a bit of fun then rest assured the gameplay and etiquette of both formats of the game are identical.

However, if you are hoping to become a winning live player there are a couple of points to appreciate right from the start.

Poker is a game of information. Players utilise the information available to them in order to make decisions and decide upon the best course of action. On-line this information includes such things as bet amounts, betting patterns and opponent's previous actions. Of course when you sit down at a live game all this information is still readily available but in addition you are also greeted with a wealth of new information to digest and process. Body language, posture and any comments players make now start to play a part in the information fest on view. Your job as a live poker player is to withold as much information as you can and thus make your opponent's decisions as tough as possible.

In example 1 you raise with K-K, and quite rightly so. The drunk guy (hey, you're gathering information already) protests "Why would you do that?" and you announce "Because I have a hand!" Be aware that there is no obligation to respond to questions like this with honesty. Telling him and the rest of the table that you have a hand is not in your best interests. Avoid giving free information away like this. Just smile, remain silent and allow people to draw whatever conclusions they want. If you do feel compelled to reply it is good fun and psychologically smart to answer a question with a question

Q. "Why would you do that?"     A. "Why didn't you raise?"   

or

Q. "Why would you do that?"     A. "Are you upset because your hand is weak?"

or even better

Q. "Why would you do that?"     A. "Would you like to buy me a drink?"

In example 2 you tell your opponent that you intend to raise blind. So once again you have let the table know what your intentions are and the other players quickly latch onto this free information.

Secondly, it is important to be completely impervious to the other players and what they think of you when playing live. If your raises are frustrating the other players then this is something to be embraced. You have paid your entrance fee and your job is to make life as uncomfortable as possible for the other players. You are not there to ensure they have an enjoyable evening out....quite the opposite in fact. In time you will thoroughly enjoy the annoyance you cause the other players. This is a very good thing. At the moment you are sensitive to what they think. My advice is to work on loosing that sensitivity as quickly as possible.

At work, with family, amongst freinds and in almost every other aspect of life there is quite a rigid social protocol to abide by and you quite rightly care what people think of you. Poker is different. Poker is fun. When you sit down at a live table it's time to cut loose, let your hair down and do your level best to screw every f***er in the building. This, you will come to realise, is rather liberating.

Good Luck!

[jakally]

I don't feel qualified to Post n here much, that's the truth, but I have very strong views on much of what I see in here, though not the conviction to voice them.

This took me by surprise.
In part I suppose because I had never noticed (or thought about) a lack of TK posts in .

If you aren't qualified TK, then that rules out 90% of the rest of us.

Your views are obviously going to be different to a LAG poster, but certainly no less valid for that, and it adds to every discussion to have different perspectives. More posts please!!

[tikay]

I don't feel qualified to Post n here much, that's the truth, but I have very strong views on much of what I see in here, though not the conviction to voice them.

This took me by surprise.
In part I suppose because I had never noticed (or thought about) a lack of TK posts in .

If you aren't qualified TK, then that rules out 90% of the rest of us.

Your views are obviously going to be different to a LAG poster, but certainly no less valid for that, and it adds to every discussion to have different perspectives. More posts please!!

Everyone laughs at my Poker tips & strategy!

I'll give it a go, but seriously, I'm very much an "oddbod" as to views on how the game should be played, very much out of step with "normal" thinking. Like, don't think you can learn the game by reading poker books, because you cannot......

 

I also can't bring myself to read printed hand histories, I fall asleep before we ever see a flop.

[kinboshi]

I don't feel qualified to Post n here much, that's the truth, but I have very strong views on much of what I see in here, though not the conviction to voice them.

This took me by surprise.
In part I suppose because I had never noticed (or thought about) a lack of TK posts in .

If you aren't qualified TK, then that rules out 90% of the rest of us.

Your views are obviously going to be different to a LAG poster, but certainly no less valid for that, and it adds to every discussion to have different perspectives. More posts please!!

Everyone laughs at my Poker tips & strategy!

I'll give it a go, but seriously, I'm very much an "oddbod" as to views on how the game should be played, very much out of step with "normal" thinking. Like, don't think you can learn the game by reading poker books, because you cannot......

 

I also can't bring myself to read printed hand histories, I fall asleep before we ever see a flop.

You don't do flops anyway do you...?

Seriously though, I think everyone would appreciate your input - just as I look forward to reading the advice of Totalise, Mantis01, Smart Money, Pab and a whole load of others (yes, even Flushy), I'd also look forward to reading what you have to say. 

Also, it'll beat having to read about trains...

[suzanne]

I played in that comp too Suzanne and we had a guy at our table raising every second hand anywhere from 500 to 1k when blinds were only at 25/50.  The other lads at the table didn't look pleased, but the only comment anyone made was, 'So much for a friendly game of cards.'  Didn't stop him raising every second hand, in fact he went into overdrive after the comment was made, but we caught him out within 10 minutes.  

Thats the same guy Im talking about Laxie, if you recall we were both on the same table 

Yes Claire and I both did rather well on the cash table  and if I lived closer I would have loved to go back hehe

Excellent post Mantis. The guy kind of took me by surprise when he said that and I couldn't think of anything witty to reply, as you said I should have said nothing. I have found it quite hard and very different playing live but I am definately getting better. I am now looking for tells though Im not very good at spotting them yet. I am also working on trying to find the killer instinct I have online. I find I fold lots of hands that I would normally play online and I dont steal enough blinds for fear of having a tell. Its like Claire said, its lack of confidence which hopefully will all fall into place with more experience.

Im with everyone else Tikay lets see you contribute to the PHA threads...we want to get inside your head