Vegas & The Aftermath - Diary

[Karabiner]

Have you read Vicky Coren's book yet?

I'm half-way through it and totally absorbed, I might finish it tonight.

Yes - what a great read it was, too. I doubt I've ever read a better-written book which focuses on poker. Her father was a superb writer, & so is Ms Coren, no ghosties needed there.

I have just finished Roy Brindley's tome, "Life's a gamble". It's a bit light, a skim-read, I read it in 2 days flat, but quite enjoyed parts of it.

Not one tenth as well written as Ms Coren's one - he also wrote it himself, no ghosties - but even so, he gets the story across very well. It's brutally honest, & he does what 90% of addicted poker players do - readily admits he has been, at times, a hopeless & out of control gambler.

Life is good now, with Mags, Sebastian, & Elise, & I'm delighted for him. He seems to invoke a lot of bile & hate from the younger players, presumably because he is old skool, & has outspoken views, but nobody can deny he has really worked hard to earn his money. He had a spell where he was out of control with alcohol - jeez, he was not pleasant to be around at the time - but he seems to have worked through that.

His other passion, of course, is Greyhounds, & I seem to recall he had a falling out with one time Gala Notts regular & fellow Sporting Life tipster/journo, Pete Meldrum.

How is Pete these days? I recall him being very ill at one time, but I think I bumped into him at DTD last year. Pete used to get "quite passionate".

I still speak to Peter every once in a while, we used to be very close friends.

I first met him at The Nottingham Bridge Club and he was my bridge partner for a while when we were both dead keen players around twenty years ago. I started going greyhound racing with him three or four times a week. He is acknowledged to be the best "judge" in the country and we won regularly.

One evening we were at Hall Green I think it was and I bumped into one of my old poker cronies from the spielers in London, Curly Mick who asked me where I was living these days. When I told him that I was in Nottingham he said "Nottingham ahhh you must be playing poker there then". I remember thinking that I wasn't but that I should be so I went to the then Stakis Casino to investigate.

That was roughly 1993 and I've hardly played a hand of bridge since.

Peter was keeping quite well the last time I saw him and had been on the wagon for at least a year.

[Dingdell]

LOL at tikay being a born-again doggymore fanboy 

I'm an easy sell, Ralph, I go all gooey when I see rehab tales.

I forgive too, though I never forget.*

I really struggle with that to be honest, and I know I'm old fashioned but any assault on a woman sits badly with me. No matter how much time has passed he still did it. Saying sorry and letting time pass doesn't make it any less of an assault at the time. It is still a crime that he made a conscious decision to commit. 

[MANTIS01]

LOL at tikay being a born-again doggymore fanboy 

I'm an easy sell, Ralph, I go all gooey when I see rehab tales.

I forgive too, though I never forget.*

I really struggle with that to be honest, and I know I'm old fashioned but any assault on a woman sits badly with me. No matter how much time has passed he still did it. Saying sorry and letting time pass doesn't make it any less of an assault at the time. It is still a crime that he made a conscious decision to commit. 

Picking up on that point I remember saying a few words about Dwain Chambers ITT, he fell from grace and did his best to launch a clean comeback. As I recall Tikay didn't forgive Dwain so readily. But it is interesting because there are many offences you seem able to recover from including violence towards women but cheating in sport seems to be the big daddy of offences that people just can't forgive or forget. Personally I  think hitting a women is a more serious offence than rubbing on some cream. Very good footballer though.

[GreekStein]

What do you think of Vicky's brother, Giles?

[tikay]

What do you think of Vicky's brother, Giles?

I don't know him personally, only via his writing in The Times, which, for the most part, is (was?) excellent.

I know he became embroiled in some ethnic controversies, relating to Poles, & Jewish people. I don't know enough about what he said, or the facts of either, to pass judgement, or comment, though. He gets a bit outspoken on Social-Media, such as Twitter, too.

"Judgement reserved", I guess, not that he'd give a flying toss what I think.

I have to say, though, that I absolutely adored that thing that went off back in 2009, or 2010, when a Sub-Editor at The Times had the temerity to mess with a piece he had written.

I will try & find it. As put-downs go, it could teach us poker players a thing or two, it was, err, dare I say it, epic.

[tikay]

Here's Giles missive. In fact, I got my dates wrong again - it was 2008. I may even have stuck it on this Diary at the time.



WARNING - Contains Bad Language. Do not read if profanities offend.


Chaps,

I am mightily pissed off. I have addressed this to Owen, Amanda and Ben because I don't know who i am supposed to be pissed off with (i'm assuming owen, but i filed to amanda and ben so it's only fair), and also to Tony, who wasn't here - if he had been I'm guessing it wouldn't have happened.

I don't really like people tinkering with my copy for the sake of tinkering. I do not enjoy the suggestion that you have a better ear or eye for how I want my words to read than I do. Owen, we discussed your turning three of my long sentences into six short ones in a single piece, and how that wasn't going to happen anymore, so I'm really hoping it wasn't you that fucked up my review on saturday.

It was the final sentence. Final sentences are very, very important. A piece builds to them, they are the little jingle that the reader takes with him into the weekend.

I wrote: "I can't think of a nicer place to sit this spring over a glass of rosé and watch the boys and girls in the street outside smiling gaily to each other, and wondering where to go for a nosh."

It appeared as: "I can't think of a nicer place to sit this spring over a glass of rosé and watch the boys and girls in the street outside smiling gaily to each other, and wondering where to go for nosh."

There is no length issue. This is someone thinking "I'll just remove this indefinite article because Coren is an illiterate ***** and i know best".

Well, you fucking don't.
This was shit, shit sub-editing for three reasons.
1) 'Nosh', as I'm sure you fluent Yiddish speakers know, is a noun formed from a bastardisation of the German 'naschen'. It is a verb, and can be construed into two distinct nouns. One, 'nosh', means simply 'food'. You have decided that this is what i meant and removed the 'a'. I am insulted enough that you think you have a better ear for English than me. But a better ear for Yiddish? I doubt it. Because the other noun, 'nosh' means "a session of eating" - in this sense you might think of its dual valency as being similar to that of 'scoff'. you can go for a scoff. or you can buy some scoff. the sentence you left me with is shit, and is not what i meant. Why would you change a sentnece aso that it meant something i didn't mean? I don't know, but you risk doing it every time you change something. And the way you avoid this kind of fuck up is by not changing a word of my copy without asking me, okay? it's easy. Not. A. Word. Ever.

2) I will now explain why your error is even more shit than it looks. You see, i was making a joke. I do that sometimes. I have set up the street as "sexually-charged". I have described the shenanigans across the road at G.A.Y.. I have used the word 'gaily' as a gentle nudge. And "looking for a nosh" has a secondary meaning of looking for a blowjob. Not specifically gay, for this is soho, and there are plenty of girls there who take money for noshing boys. "looking for nosh" does not have that ambiguity. the joke is gone. I only wrote that sodding paragraph to make that joke. And you've fucking stripped it out like a pissed Irish plasterer restoring a renaissance fresco and thinking jesus looks shit with a bear so plastering over it. You might as well have removed the whole paragraph. I mean, fucking christ, don't you read the copy?

3) And worst of all. Dumbest, deafest, shittest of all, you have removed the unstressed 'a' so that the stress that should have fallen on "nosh" is lost, and my piece ends on an unstressed syllable. When you're winding up a piece of prose, metre is crucial. Can't you hear? Can't you hear that it is wrong? It's not fucking rocket science. It's fucking pre-GCSE scansion. I have written 350 restaurant reviews for The Times and i have never ended on an unstressed syllable. Fuck. fuck, fuck, fuck.

I am sorry if this looks petty (last time i mailed a Times sub about the change of a single word i got in all sorts of trouble) but i care deeply about my work and i hate to have it fucked up by shit subbing. I have been away, you've been subbing joe and hugo and maybe they just file and fuck off and think "hey ho, it's tomorrow's fish and chips" - well, not me. I woke up at three in the morning on sunday and fucking lay there, furious, for two hours. weird, maybe. but that's how it is.

It strips me of all confidence in writing for the magazine. No exaggeration. i've got a review to write this morning and i really don't feel like doing it, for fear that some nuance is going to be removed from the final line, the pay-off, and i'm going to have another weekend ruined for me.

I've been writing for The Times for 15 years and i have never asked this before - i have never asked it of anyone i have written for - but I must insist, from now on, that i am sent a proof of every review i do, in pdf format, so i can check it for fuck-ups. and i must be sent it in good time in case changes are needed. It is the only way i can carry on in the job.

And, just out of interest, I'd like whoever made that change to email me and tell me why. Tell me the exact reasoning which led you to remove that word from my copy.

Right,
Sorry to go on. Anger, real steaming fucking anger can make a man verbose.
All the best
Giles

[GreekStein]

That was why I asked you about him. I don't know him for anything else but that exchange.

If I remember right, the editors response was pretty special too.

[Laxie]

You posted it here a good while back Tony.

[tikay]

That was why I asked you about him. I don't know him for anything else but that exchange.

If I remember right, the editors response was pretty special too.

Yes, I suppose I had better go find that now, too!

[tikay]

Can of worms you've opened here, Mr Cos.

I have not found the response from the Times Sub-Editor yet, but I found some more of Giles stuff......This was was also to his paymasters at The Times.

We have a few blondes who have the same level of tact & decorum as him.

Once again, severe bad language warning. Please don't read if profanities offend.

The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog. how fucking difficult is that? it's the sentence that bestrides the fucking book i reviewed for you. it is the sentence i wrote first in my fucking review. it is 35 fucking letters long, which is why i wrote that it was. and so some useless ***** subeditor decides to change it to "jumps over A lazy dog" can you fucking count? can you see that that makes it a 33 letter sentence? so it looks as if i can't count, and the cunting author of the book, poor mr dunn, cannot count. the whole bastard book turns on the sentence being as i fucking wrote it. and that it is exactly 33 letters long. why do you meddle. what do you think you achieve with that kind of dumb-witted smart-arsery? why do you change things you do not understand without consulting. why do you believe you know best when you know fuck all. jack shit.

that is as bad as editing can be. fuck, i hope you're proud. it will be small relief for the author that nobody reads your poxy magazine.

never ever ask me to write something for you. and don't pay me. i'd rather take £400 quid for assassinating a crack whore's only child in a revenge killing for a busted drug deal - my integrity would be less compromised.

jesus fucking wept i don't know what else to say

[kinboshi]

Just read this on twitter:

"The Olympic countdown clock in London has stopped;  the manufacturers Swatch Group say they are 'very disappointed' about 'technical issue'"

Get sponsors who make cheap, plastic crap - get a clock that doesn't work.

[tikay]

Here he goes again.

Note the hilarious juxtaposition of "you fucking twat" & "all the best". Such civil peeps, us Brits.

feargus,

I'm emailing to say that your review of osteria emilia, in most ways perfectly fine and good and spot on, pissed me off. i booked, as ever, under a pseudonym, that over made up italian bird did not have a fucking clue who i was (or even who baddiel was, who i ate with because he lives, like me, round the corner). Nor were there any kitchen staff peeking out of any porthole. i appreciate that you have to keep your column as lively as possible - and name dropping david i guess might be exciting for your readers (i'll certainly be doing it in my column) - but in your froth to show how folksy and incognito you are, you did your readers and the restaurant an immense disservice: you suggested that i got some special dispensation in eating a la carte. But if you'd spent a bit more time looking at your lunch menu, and a bit less gawping at me, you'd have noticed that it said, "dishes from the evening a la carte menu are available at lunchtime, with some exceptions".

You said "i didn't have the brass neck to demand anything off the unavailable a la carte". it makes you sound like an utter tit. you are not only a chippy fuck but a lazy journalist. 'brass neck'. learn to write, and take your head out of your arse, you fucking twat.

all the best

giles coren

[tikay]

In the interest of "balance", here's the reply from the Times sub-editor to Giles.

1-1, I'd say.

WARNING, bad language, da de da.

Dear Giles,

Sub-editing is a noble profession. It is also a thankless one - particularly when your writers call you a "useless *****".

There was a sharp intake of breath when your e-mail hit the inbox of subs throughout the industry this week - that was after we'd stopped laughing. Not that we didn't think you had a point. Yes, tinkering with copy just for the sake of it and without consultation is wrong. It is disrespectful and arrogant. And we can see why you'd be furious at the loss even of an indefinite article.

There is nothing more irritating than a sub-editor who thinks they know better than a writer, particularly one who cares deeply about his work. But did you really have to be so rude?

Laura Barton stated in Friday's Guardian that there's "something of a long-standing tension between writers and sub-editors". Do you wonder why? Contrary to your belief, we don't "believe we know best when we know fuck all".

If you could only see the state of some of the raw copy we have to knock into shape. It's badly structured, poorly spelt, appallingly punctuated, lazily researched. We're not saying your writing falls into that category - on the contrary, your journalism is highly accomplished. Never having worked on your copy, we can only take your word for it that it is beyond improvement in its pre-published state. Strange as it may seem, many writers do not possess your grasp of language; indeed it is sometimes difficult to believe that English is their mother tongue, and they don't give a damn about what they produce because they know that a good, often highly educated sub-editor will correct it, check it and turn it into readable prose.

None of this, however, can excuse your nasty, bullying, "know your place, you insignificant little fuckwit" e-mail. Yes, it's funny, in a way that pieces that use "fuck", "shit" and "*****" so liberally often can be, but, please - someone made a mistake. They surely had no intention of sabotaging your deathless prose. So you don't like what happened to your piece - have a word with your editor. The hapless sub will no doubt already have been soundly thrashed and had their dictionary privileges removed.

Some years ago, a colleague of ours had a T-shirt printed up with the legend "xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxx is a *****" on the front, which he wore every week when having to deal with the writer to whom it referred, because he, like you, became so disproportionately abusive when his use of language was questioned. We'd hate that to happen to you, because you can actually write, and having "Giles Coren is a sanctimonious little twat who needs to get over himself" could be quite costly in T-shirt lettering. Subs are no more infallible than writers. So, let's all try a little mutual respect, shall we?

All the best,

Mia Aimaro Ogden
Joanna Duckworth
Senior sub-editors, The Sunday Times

[tikay]

Correction.

Make that Game Set & Match to the lady Subbie.

[GreekStein]

yup, i thought they pwned him