Vegas & The Aftermath - Diary

[Marky147]

Scary to think what 365 must be worth if sky bet is worth £800m. Think Denise will be soaring up the rich list even further next year.

More or less likely to have a sky bet account last more than two bets with this change of ownership?

Yeah, BetEveyDay is a stunningly successful operation, by any standards, much to admire there.

No idea as to whether you, a recognized "sharp", would get a better deal. I'd think it unlikely, myself. If it were my Business, I'd not let you bet with me, for sure! Why would I, when I can make money far easier from others? Don't answer that, this is a peaceful thread.....

They don't even let me bet, Tikay, and you could probably decorate me with about 20 flakes!

[tikay]

There was a lovely little Show on BBC 4 a night or two ago about Petula Clark.

She was a huge star in the sixties, earlier maybe, though most remember her for "Downtown". Can't help but wonder how many times she has performed that, & if she still gets a buzz from it. She featured as the "Subject" on "This is Your Life " - no less than 3times.

She is still very much in demand, & working all over the world.

The jaw-dropper though was that she is 82 years of age.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petula_Clark

[tikay]

What are your thoughts on the news? Tremendous growth and big valuation.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/12/04/sky-m-a-skybet-idUKKCN0JI0HI20141204

Amazing, isn't it, how quickly it has grown, from such small beginnings in 2000? And the whole thing only exists because of the Internet.

I know you do some work with SkyBet, so you have a decent understanding of the Business. On balance, I'd say it is pretty exciting. The Reuters Press Release was just a 3 or 4 liner, but the Staff all received a lengthy & very detailed missive from the Suits first thing today, & all the Staff are being briefed face to face later this morning. The whole atmo in the office is "it's party time" to be honest.  

For me personally? Well at my age, I don't need to worry too much about the long term future of the Business, or how it will affect me one way or another, but yeah, it all seems good.

Nothing stays the same for long these days, does it?

totes emosh (I do love that) as Tighty might say.

How are you, anyway, Big Man? I trust the February UKPC will be graced with your considerable presence again? Some astonishing news on that will be made known very shortly, too, & I've had the most incredible week sorting out additional UKPC bits & bobs as a result.

Exciting times, & I do know I'll not be dying of boredom any time soon.  

Yes I was actually up visiting Skybet on Monday to meet with some of the trading management team. I met the Poker head honcho as I was leaving my meeting and he was asking if I was going to the UKPC. I might be in Australia in Feb so if the diary permits I'll be there. Try and make the Omaha easy for those who work for a living!

The 15x EBITDA is huge, though shows it is growing at a brilliant rate. They are one of the only firms who seem to be getting it right across the full product range.

It certainly is, for a Gaming Operation, but as you note, it reflects the continued strong growth of the entire Group. By now, you'd expect the early growth to slow, but it's not, it's growing faster than ever. Mobile, in the last 3 years, has been a major part of that, right across the Business.

Word in your ear though Ian - don't come on a poker forum saying nice things about a Gaming Group, you'll get lynched! 

[tikay]

Scary to think what 365 must be worth if sky bet is worth £800m. Think Denise will be soaring up the rich list even further next year.

More or less likely to have a sky bet account last more than two bets with this change of ownership?

Yeah, BetEveyDay is a stunningly successful operation, by any standards, much to admire there.

No idea as to whether you, a recognized "sharp", would get a better deal. I'd think it unlikely, myself. If it were my Business, I'd not let you bet with me, for sure! Why would I, when I can make money far easier from others? Don't answer that, this is a peaceful thread.....

They don't even let me bet, Tikay, and you could probably decorate me with about 20 flakes!

That's just for balance, Mark. It's almost unfair to take your money, I heard.

[TightEnd]

will the relationship with the TV channel remain unchanged or is it too early to say?

are strategies already in place for a more mature market for skybet? i can see, partly from events and partly from the forum, that the Sy acquisition model is still introducing a lot of new players to poker (which must be a rarity) but once that growth path slows, what next?

(or put another way, is the thought that the parent might be selling at the top of the growth path?)

[doubleup]

I don't expect poker players to LIKE it, of course not. But I would have thought they'd understand how business works, whether we like it or not. 

They do understand perfectly well.  They don't like it because old Stars had one objective - to have more people playing poker on their site this year than last year and that objective was aligned with the player's objectives.  

Amaya has entirely different objectives.

[tikay]

Also on BBC 4 two nights ago was a lovely Show all about the Acoustic Guitar.

Just a history of the acoustic guitar & modern music really, but included a bunch of clips which wrere really great to see & hear.

Pick of the bunch was a 45 second clip of Keith Richards ad-libbing some stuff. How that man is alive amazes me, but all his bits seem to still be working.

Click to see full-size image.

[tikay]

I don't expect poker players to LIKE it, of course not. But I would have thought they'd understand how business works, whether we like it or not. 

They do understand perfectly well.  They don't like it because old Stars had one objective - to have more people playing poker on their site this year than last year and that objective was aligned with the player's objectives.  

Amaya has entirely different objectives.

It's not a sin to try to earn more profit from a Business, that's the only reason they exist. Seems an odd reason to hate a Company - for doing what any Business is obliged to do, i.e., maximise & increase it's earnings. 

I don't expect players to like it, but all that vitriol is extraordinary. There really is an excess of hate around these days, despite life being better than it ever was, & by a long chalk. 

[arbboy]

I don't expect poker players to LIKE it, of course not. But I would have thought they'd understand how business works, whether we like it or not. 

They do understand perfectly well.  They don't like it because old Stars had one objective - to have more people playing poker on their site this year than last year and that objective was aligned with the player's objectives.  

Amaya has entirely different objectives.

Really?  Was that really what the goal of the shareholders was last year?  Was that the headline in the Mission statement of the firm?  I doubt it very much.  If it was the one objective why didn't they make all games rake free?  Would have seemed like the easiest way to meet that objective.

[Marky147]

Scary to think what 365 must be worth if sky bet is worth £800m. Think Denise will be soaring up the rich list even further next year.

More or less likely to have a sky bet account last more than two bets with this change of ownership?

Yeah, BetEveyDay is a stunningly successful operation, by any standards, much to admire there.

No idea as to whether you, a recognized "sharp", would get a better deal. I'd think it unlikely, myself. If it were my Business, I'd not let you bet with me, for sure! Why would I, when I can make money far easier from others? Don't answer that, this is a peaceful thread.....

They don't even let me bet, Tikay, and you could probably decorate me with about 20 flakes!

That's just for balance, Mark. It's almost unfair to take your money, I heard.

Ha!

[Doobs]

I don't expect poker players to LIKE it, of course not. But I would have thought they'd understand how business works, whether we like it or not. 

They do understand perfectly well.  They don't like it because old Stars had one objective - to have more people playing poker on their site this year than last year and that objective was aligned with the player's objectives.  

Amaya has entirely different objectives.

It's not a sin to try to earn more profit from a Business, that's the only reason they exist. Seems an odd reason to hate a Company - for doing what any Business is obliged to do, i.e., maximise & increase it's earnings. 

I don't expect players to like it, but all that vitriol is extraordinary. There really is an excess of hate around these days, despite life being better than it ever was, & by a long chalk. 

I have tried to argue the issues with stars new charges sensibly, but it just denegrates into Negreanu is a tosser and this players don't understand guff you put out.  There have been many sensible posts on 2 plus 2 for instance, but some don't seem to see them.  

Some players do understand the conflicts very well, but rather than address the issues it is much easier to point out some bloke who wants to throw the stars rep off a cliff because he lost $30.

It is this complete blindness from people on both sides to the sensible arguments on both sides which spoils the arguments.

There is a huge difference between charging as much as you can for a product and charging the amount that makes you the most money.  New Stars doesn't seem to grasp this and are stuck on pricing 101.  For instance in the hyper sats they very much seem to be taking the former approach even if it means the total take falls.  Whilst it is obvious that it isn't in the players interest, it isn't in the sites' interest either.  But far easier to talk about the cliff fella and make a few more sweeping generalisations.  

Will happily wait for the year on year growth to see who is right.

[tikay]

will the relationship with the TV channel remain unchanged or is it too early to say?

are strategies already in place for a more mature market for skybet? i can see, partly from events and partly from the forum, that the Sy acquisition model is still introducing a lot of new players to poker (which must be a rarity) but once that growth path slows, what next?

(or put another way, is the thought that the parent might be selling at the top of the growth path?)

Just dealing with that one for now.

I've no idea, of course, I'm not party to that sort of info.

But I'd bet diamonds I know the answer, & so do you if you think about it.

The clue is this, which was about 4 months ago.....


http://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/jul/25/bskyb-buy-sky-italia-deutschland-fox

That is a huge bit of integration to digest, and a colossal growth oppoprtunity for BSKYB, to go truly pan-Europe.

As is the way of things these days, Businesses like to specialise, be market Leaders in their segment, & anything which is off-topic is viewed as a Management distraction.

So my guess - just a guess - would be that.

I would imagine BSKYB are shuffling & adjusting their finanial assets, too, to be sure they have the balance sheet strength to grow that Business.  It all seems quite logical really.

For SB&G, under CVC, it gives them more scope to grow I would have thought. 

Of course, the "anti Sky" dogs are barking all over the shop today, lol, & conspiracy theories abound. It's just business, doing what business does best, finding the best way to grow.

Click to see full-size image.

[AlunB]

What are your thoughts on the news? Tremendous growth and big valuation.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/12/04/sky-m-a-skybet-idUKKCN0JI0HI20141204

In before its AmayaStars all over again. Petition for Thewy to be removed as Team pro etc.

Very good, very good. Might have to get on The Ambassador's case, too.

I'm afraid I have a bit of a disconnect on this whole inability for poker players to understand that businesses operate for one reason, & one reason only - to make money. That's the same whether it be a supermarket or a gaming site. They exist to make money. They don't exist, as such, to "care" for anyone, unless it better serves their purpose. 

In fact, it goes a step further. Any Company which makes the same profit as last year is deemed to be failing, even if that is a huge sum. So the treadmill requres - DEMANDS - that all Businesses make more money than last year. The resistance to that notion, or inability to grasp it in an unemotive way, just astonishes me.

I don't expect poker players to LIKE it, of course not. But I would have thought they'd understand how business works, whether we like it ot not. 

I equally don't understand, beyond your role as devil's advocate and voice of reason, how you don't get why people are mad. It's fine to say that this is business and blah blah blah. But that sort of entirely misses the point.

[AlunB]

As per Sky Bet deal I think it's probably a cracking deal for everyone concerned, including the customers. And I assume the 15x multiple is actually based on their being real value to CVC by retaining Sky as a minority shareholder.

[doubleup]

I don't expect poker players to LIKE it, of course not. But I would have thought they'd understand how business works, whether we like it or not. 

They do understand perfectly well.  They don't like it because old Stars had one objective - to have more people playing poker on their site this year than last year and that objective was aligned with the player's objectives.  

Amaya has entirely different objectives.

Really?  Was that really what the goal of the shareholders was last year?  Was that the headline in the Mission statement of the firm?  I doubt it very much.  If it was the one objective why didn't they make all games rake free?  Would have seemed like the easiest way to meet that objective.

Fair point, but even if I add on "at the same rake level", my statement is still true.