Vegas & The Aftermath - Diary

[tikay]

I was reading through the Tips for Tikay fred (as you kidz call it) the other day and it seemed to me that it was picking up a lot of posts that would previously have been here.

the tales of betting coups and characters are so good to read and the standard of reportage of such things is so high that it almost seems a shame that they are there and likely to be read only 'in their moment' rather than being somewhere they have more chance of being seen again. There used to be a 'Best of Red' thread/fred, maybe there should be a 'Best of Tips for Tikay'?

I'm not sure David, thats for others to decide.

If there were the interest, I'd put them here instead, or as well. They just seem to "fit" across there.  It (Tips) was not intended to be such a busy thread, it just happened somehow, God knows how or why. Fun though. And I like "fun".

I love writing little tales, mainly reminiscing I suppose, & taking a bit of care with them, putting a photo or two up, photos bring Posts to life I always think. If there were enough hours in the day, I'd write tons more, I must have 20 questions on here I have yet to reply to.

If there were enough hours in the day, I'd write tons more. Think yourselves lucky.

[tikay]

I was reading through the Tips for Tikay fred (as you kidz call it) the other day and it seemed to me that it was picking up a lot of posts that would previously have been here.

the tales of betting coups and characters are so good to read and the standard of reportage of such things is so high that it almost seems a shame that they are there and likely to be read only 'in their moment' rather than being somewhere they have more chance of being seen again. There used to be a 'Best of Red' thread/fred, maybe there should be a 'Best of Tips for Tikay'?

That could be the book he has up his sleeve maybe? Cut and paste yourself a book, could be a winner.

No no no, that will be a different kettle of fish entirely. Like your idea actually, a collection of anecdotal stuff. Hardly commercial though.

I've started it, too, framed up the "sections". Doubt it will ever see the light of day, but you never know.

[DaveShoelace]

I was reading through the Tips for Tikay fred (as you kidz call it) the other day and it seemed to me that it was picking up a lot of posts that would previously have been here.

the tales of betting coups and characters are so good to read and the standard of reportage of such things is so high that it almost seems a shame that they are there and likely to be read only 'in their moment' rather than being somewhere they have more chance of being seen again. There used to be a 'Best of Red' thread/fred, maybe there should be a 'Best of Tips for Tikay'?

That could be the book he has up his sleeve maybe? Cut and paste yourself a book, could be a winner.

No no no, that will be a different kettle of fish entirely. Like your idea actually, a collection of anecdotal stuff. Hardly commercial though.

I've started it, too, framed up the "sections". Doubt it will ever see the light of day, but you never know.

Go on, spill the beans, what's it about?

[AlunB]

Please don't let it be a poker strategy book.

[tikay]

Please don't let it be a poker strategy book.

Oh God no!  No danger there.

[AlunB]

Glad to hear it! What a waste that would be.

[tikay]

Funny you should mention this Smashed. My friend created tracking software for Sky, or at least adapted HEM to it, and began to sell it. Sky Poker banned him from the site i believe, and possibly threatened him with further action if he continued to sell. Were you aware of this Tikay?

Thats awkward.....

1) Yes I was fully aware.

2) You have omitted (because I assume you were not aware) certain crucial facts which change the context of that matter completely.

3) I'm forbidden to discuss individual cases - Data Protection, Client Confidentiality, & Best Practice, so I can't comment further on any specific case, & will not be able to discuss it further on here.

That sounds rather more "severe" than I intended, but I hope you get my drift - I just cannot discuss such things, or at least, not whilst I have my current job.

[tikay]

Sky didn't block it.

HEM just doesn't work with the Sky software because the format of the hand histories generated on Sky is different to most other sites and there aren't enough players that want it for HEM to make the necessary adjustments to make HEM compatible with the site.

If the sites really wanted to block tracking software, they could do it tomorrow. Pokerstars has a list of illegal software and it detects when this software is being run alongside the poker client. At the moment you get an automated email warning from security. They used to do this with sharkscope before they threatened legal action and sharkscope agreed to require players to opt-in for their stats to be shown. It would take seconds to make a change so that players running HEM/PokerTracker can't log in. They're just smart enough to know that the rake that they would drive away (especially in Europe, where there are loads of sits to choose from) isn't even close to the rake generated by players that would play there if trackers were banned, but wouldn't currently.

The model of a poker site with no pros has been tried. Cool Hand Poker on the Microgaming network are doing this. Ever heard of them? Probably not.

Boss taking steps to block tracking software is pretty comical. Its not like they are in any sort of market position to be able to dictate this sort of stuff. The high raking regs will just play elsewhere.

Hi Dan,

Sky Poker block third party tracking software.

If people come up with Heath Robinson workarounds, we quickly block them, too, as soon as we become aware of their existence, which is usually pretty quickly.

We would never knowingly allow HEM, or any form of HUD. Blocking these things is not difficult.  We do (currently) allow Sharkscope.

Now & then, someone claims that tracking software is allowed on Sky Poker, & we get flooded with complaints from our regulars. And I mean flooded, many of our players feel very strongly about this matter. (Including several promiinent blondes who just giq next door).  We promote the site as not allowing them, we do not allow them, & as far as I can tell, we never will.

I don't believe this can be seen as "dictating to the market" (as you suggest Boss try to), its just our policy. People have the choice where they play. The high-rakers will play elsewhere? Maybe so, but that is what it is.

It's often overlooked, especially on blonde, where there is a larger % of "pros" than on most Poker Forums, that the Online Poker Business revolves around high-rollers, pros, high-volume grinders & the like.  It does not - north of 90% of the worldwide poker population are "micro-stake" & medium stake players. (Levels are relative of course). 

I don't want to get spammy here, & we all know how good or bad sites such as Sky Poker are, relative to the Networks, 'Stars, Party etc. The fact is, the Online Poker market declined substantially last year, as you know, with some major European brands losing over 30% of their Margin & Traffic. Next door's numbers rose over 30% the last year (year ending 30/6/2012), & are expected to continue that trajectory this year. 

We will contine to forbid the use of third party tracking software, because we believe that is the correct decision for our business, & it's specific market focus.

Apologies if that came across spammy, but I felt it needed a reply, & I know you'll debate it constructively, & in good heart. I CAN debate that matter.

Therer really is a whole different online poker world out there you know, where peeps play for recreation, they never go near "staking" or the like, are not backed, & where "make-up" is assumed to be lipstick & mascara. And they actually enjoy poker.

Hope you are well, & that you & the boys in Leeds are getting the lot.

[AlunB]

Sky didn't block it.

HEM just doesn't work with the Sky software because the format of the hand histories generated on Sky is different to most other sites and there aren't enough players that want it for HEM to make the necessary adjustments to make HEM compatible with the site.

If the sites really wanted to block tracking software, they could do it tomorrow. Pokerstars has a list of illegal software and it detects when this software is being run alongside the poker client. At the moment you get an automated email warning from security. They used to do this with sharkscope before they threatened legal action and sharkscope agreed to require players to opt-in for their stats to be shown. It would take seconds to make a change so that players running HEM/PokerTracker can't log in. They're just smart enough to know that the rake that they would drive away (especially in Europe, where there are loads of sits to choose from) isn't even close to the rake generated by players that would play there if trackers were banned, but wouldn't currently.

The model of a poker site with no pros has been tried. Cool Hand Poker on the Microgaming network are doing this. Ever heard of them? Probably not.

Boss taking steps to block tracking software is pretty comical. Its not like they are in any sort of market position to be able to dictate this sort of stuff. The high raking regs will just play elsewhere.

Hi Dan,

Sky Poker block third party tracking software.

If people come up with Heath Robinson workarounds, we quickly block them, too, as soon as we become aware of their existence, which is usually pretty quickly.

We would never knowingly allow HEM, or any form of HUD. Blocking these things is not difficult.  We do (currently) allow Sharkscope.

Now & then, someone claims that tracking software is allowed on Sky Poker, & we get flooded with complaints from our regulars. And I mean flooded, many of our players feel very strongly about this matter. (Including several promiinent blondes who just giq next door).  We promote the site as not allowing them, we do not allow them, & as far as I can tell, we never will.

I don't believe this can be seen as "dictating to the market" (as you suggest Boss try to), its just our policy. People have the choice where they play. The high-rakers will play elsewhere? Maybe so, but that is what it is.

It's often overlooked, especially on blonde, where there is a larger % of "pros" than on most Poker Forums, that the Online Poker Business revolves around high-rollers, pros, high-volume grinders & the like.  It does not - north of 90% of the worldwide poker population are "micro-stake" & medium stake players. (Levels are relative of course). 

I don't want to get spammy here, & we all know how good or bad sites such as Sky Poker are, relative to the Networks, 'Stars, Party etc. The fact is, the Online Poker market declined substantially last year, as you know, with some major European brands losing over 30% of their Margin & Traffic. Next door's numbers rose over 30% the last year (year ending 30/6/2012), & are expected to continue that trajectory this year. 

We will contine to forbid the use of third party tracking software, because we believe that is the correct decision for our business, & it's specific market focus.

Apologies if that came across spammy, but I felt it needed a reply, & I know you'll debate it constructively, & in good heart. I CAN debate that matter.

Therer really is a whole different online poker world out there you know, where peeps play for recreation, they never go near "staking" or the like, are not backed, & where "make-up" is assumed to be lipstick & mascara. And they actually enjoy poker.

Hope you are well, & that you & the boys in Leeds are getting the lot.

I was with you until this bit...

[tikay]

Sky didn't block it.

HEM just doesn't work with the Sky software because the format of the hand histories generated on Sky is different to most other sites and there aren't enough players that want it for HEM to make the necessary adjustments to make HEM compatible with the site.

http://www.groomi.net/2012/02/introducing-skyhud-enable-heads-up-display-on-skypoker-com/

edit: Didn't want to clutter thread and get first post on page 2000.

Link is dead because SkyPoker banned the creator and threatened to ban any users, preventing him from selling it. Obv fair play with HEM not being configured for Sky, just thought it was interesting they prevented a HUD from being used, and banned the creator.

Not dealing with any specific case, but.....

We do not allow anyone to represent a product as being a "Sky Poker" approved Product.

Users would not be banned - the problem would be tackled the other way round, by making the HUD unworkable.

Individuals would NOT be banned for creating it, as such

Your posts on this - wholly unintentionally I am certain - are misleading by omission.

I'd appreciate it if we closed this matter now, if you don't mind, it's very awkard for me. I can't discuss specific cases because of DP & the like, so it's unfair that stuff is being said which does not give the whole picture.

Thanks.

[tikay]

Sky didn't block it.

HEM just doesn't work with the Sky software because the format of the hand histories generated on Sky is different to most other sites and there aren't enough players that want it for HEM to make the necessary adjustments to make HEM compatible with the site.

If the sites really wanted to block tracking software, they could do it tomorrow. Pokerstars has a list of illegal software and it detects when this software is being run alongside the poker client. At the moment you get an automated email warning from security. They used to do this with sharkscope before they threatened legal action and sharkscope agreed to require players to opt-in for their stats to be shown. It would take seconds to make a change so that players running HEM/PokerTracker can't log in. They're just smart enough to know that the rake that they would drive away (especially in Europe, where there are loads of sits to choose from) isn't even close to the rake generated by players that would play there if trackers were banned, but wouldn't currently.

The model of a poker site with no pros has been tried. Cool Hand Poker on the Microgaming network are doing this. Ever heard of them? Probably not.

Boss taking steps to block tracking software is pretty comical. Its not like they are in any sort of market position to be able to dictate this sort of stuff. The high raking regs will just play elsewhere.

Hi Dan,

Sky Poker block third party tracking software.

If people come up with Heath Robinson workarounds, we quickly block them, too, as soon as we become aware of their existence, which is usually pretty quickly.

We would never knowingly allow HEM, or any form of HUD. Blocking these things is not difficult.  We do (currently) allow Sharkscope.

Now & then, someone claims that tracking software is allowed on Sky Poker, & we get flooded with complaints from our regulars. And I mean flooded, many of our players feel very strongly about this matter. (Including several promiinent blondes who just giq next door).  We promote the site as not allowing them, we do not allow them, & as far as I can tell, we never will.

I don't believe this can be seen as "dictating to the market" (as you suggest Boss try to), its just our policy. People have the choice where they play. The high-rakers will play elsewhere? Maybe so, but that is what it is.

It's often overlooked, especially on blonde, where there is a larger % of "pros" than on most Poker Forums, that the Online Poker Business revolves around high-rollers, pros, high-volume grinders & the like.  It does not - north of 90% of the worldwide poker population are "micro-stake" & medium stake players. (Levels are relative of course). 

I don't want to get spammy here, & we all know how good or bad sites such as Sky Poker are, relative to the Networks, 'Stars, Party etc. The fact is, the Online Poker market declined substantially last year, as you know, with some major European brands losing over 30% of their Margin & Traffic. Next door's numbers rose over 30% the last year (year ending 30/6/2012), & are expected to continue that trajectory this year. 

We will contine to forbid the use of third party tracking software, because we believe that is the correct decision for our business, & it's specific market focus.

Apologies if that came across spammy, but I felt it needed a reply, & I know you'll debate it constructively, & in good heart. I CAN debate that matter.

Therer really is a whole different online poker world out there you know, where peeps play for recreation, they never go near "staking" or the like, are not backed, & where "make-up" is assumed to be lipstick & mascara. And they actually enjoy poker.

Hope you are well, & that you & the boys in Leeds are getting the lot.

I was with you until this bit...

Fair point Alan, I explained that poorly.

On the whole, recreational players, at lower levels, enjoy the game far more than high-stake Online grinders, pros, & the like, who play the game for a living, or are up to their eyes in make-up, & the pressure that goes with it. IMO, of course. So, some Online sites specifically cater for those players.

I downsized a goodly while back, & I've never enjoyed the game so much as I have since then. Having no bankroll pressure, & playing purely for fun, makes poker a truly wonderful game. When the stakes get higher, & it hurts people to the extent that they get arsey when they lose is hardly "fun".

[smashedagain]

Jesus. This all began ONCE AGAIN with "it's funny you should mention that Herbie". Appologise once again.

[Doobs]

Sky didn't block it.

HEM just doesn't work with the Sky software because the format of the hand histories generated on Sky is different to most other sites and there aren't enough players that want it for HEM to make the necessary adjustments to make HEM compatible with the site.

If the sites really wanted to block tracking software, they could do it tomorrow. Pokerstars has a list of illegal software and it detects when this software is being run alongside the poker client. At the moment you get an automated email warning from security. They used to do this with sharkscope before they threatened legal action and sharkscope agreed to require players to opt-in for their stats to be shown. It would take seconds to make a change so that players running HEM/PokerTracker can't log in. They're just smart enough to know that the rake that they would drive away (especially in Europe, where there are loads of sits to choose from) isn't even close to the rake generated by players that would play there if trackers were banned, but wouldn't currently.

The model of a poker site with no pros has been tried. Cool Hand Poker on the Microgaming network are doing this. Ever heard of them? Probably not.

Boss taking steps to block tracking software is pretty comical. Its not like they are in any sort of market position to be able to dictate this sort of stuff. The high raking regs will just play elsewhere.

Hi Dan,

Sky Poker block third party tracking software.

If people come up with Heath Robinson workarounds, we quickly block them, too, as soon as we become aware of their existence, which is usually pretty quickly.

We would never knowingly allow HEM, or any form of HUD. Blocking these things is not difficult.  We do (currently) allow Sharkscope.

Now & then, someone claims that tracking software is allowed on Sky Poker, & we get flooded with complaints from our regulars. And I mean flooded, many of our players feel very strongly about this matter. (Including several promiinent blondes who just giq next door).  We promote the site as not allowing them, we do not allow them, & as far as I can tell, we never will.

I don't believe this can be seen as "dictating to the market" (as you suggest Boss try to), its just our policy. People have the choice where they play. The high-rakers will play elsewhere? Maybe so, but that is what it is.

It's often overlooked, especially on blonde, where there is a larger % of "pros" than on most Poker Forums, that the Online Poker Business revolves around high-rollers, pros, high-volume grinders & the like.  It does not - north of 90% of the worldwide poker population are "micro-stake" & medium stake players. (Levels are relative of course). 

I don't want to get spammy here, & we all know how good or bad sites such as Sky Poker are, relative to the Networks, 'Stars, Party etc. The fact is, the Online Poker market declined substantially last year, as you know, with some major European brands losing over 30% of their Margin & Traffic. Next door's numbers rose over 30% the last year (year ending 30/6/2012), & are expected to continue that trajectory this year. 

We will contine to forbid the use of third party tracking software, because we believe that is the correct decision for our business, & it's specific market focus.

Apologies if that came across spammy, but I felt it needed a reply, & I know you'll debate it constructively, & in good heart. I CAN debate that matter.

Therer really is a whole different online poker world out there you know, where peeps play for recreation, they never go near "staking" or the like, are not backed, & where "make-up" is assumed to be lipstick & mascara. And they actually enjoy poker.

Hope you are well, & that you & the boys in Leeds are getting the lot.

I was with you until this bit...

Fair point Alan, I explained that poorly.

On the whole, recreational players, at lower levels, enjoy the game far more than high-stake Online grinders, pros, & the like, who play the game for a living, or are up to their eyes in make-up, & the pressure that goes with it. IMO, of course.

I downsized a goodly while back, & I've never enjoyed the game so much as I have since then. Having no bankroll pressure, & playing purely for fun, makes poker a truly wonderful game. When the stakes get higher, & it hurts people to the extent that they get arsey when they lose is hardly "fun".

Undoubtedly Sky seems to have a great community, unfortunately that does not mean that they don't get arsey when they lose.  I have mini view on so can't see the chat, several screens on the go, but still get to see my fair share of abuse from that one.

FWIW I don't visit that forum much, but the thread title "Thanks for busting me and taking all my bankroll " amused me way more than it should.  So much amusement on the internet today, props especially to Mantis.

True what you say about smaller tournaments, poker is much more enjoyable with the pressure off.

[AlunB]

Fair point Alan, I explained that poorly.

On the whole, recreational players, at lower levels, enjoy the game far more than high-stake Online grinders, pros, & the like, who play the game for a living, or are up to their eyes in make-up, & the pressure that goes with it. IMO, of course. So, some Online sites specifically cater for those players.

I downsized a goodly while back, & I've never enjoyed the game so much as I have since then. Having no bankroll pressure, & playing purely for fun, makes poker a truly wonderful game. When the stakes get higher, & it hurts people to the extent that they get arsey when they lose is hardly "fun".

Yep I would agree with that. Poker should first and foremost be about fun and enjoyment of the game. And that has got seriously lost in this 'if you're not crushing you're nobody' promotion most of the sites engaged in. I like to think our mags have trod the line between promoting skill and fun equally, but am sure we've got it wrong too.

It's important to note though that it's 100% wrong to say recreational players all enjoy poker. Most of them lose money, often money they can't afford to lose. Sorry but that's true. It makes them angry, or upset. Nobody likes to lose. Not really. The motivation to play isn't JUST to win though. That's the difference.

The trouble with gambling is that for it to be fun it has to hurt a bit. That's why I could never really seriously play $0.01/$0.02 and enjoy it. But I can multi-table $0.05/$0.10 and enjoy it.

[Tal]

In my defence, if I didn't post little stories, wittyish observations and sarcastic comments on Tips for Tikay, all I'd have left would be losing tips.

And no one would want that.