Vegas & The Aftermath - Diary

[tikay]

Fair point Alan, I explained that poorly.

On the whole, recreational players, at lower levels, enjoy the game far more than high-stake Online grinders, pros, & the like, who play the game for a living, or are up to their eyes in make-up, & the pressure that goes with it. IMO, of course. So, some Online sites specifically cater for those players.

I downsized a goodly while back, & I've never enjoyed the game so much as I have since then. Having no bankroll pressure, & playing purely for fun, makes poker a truly wonderful game. When the stakes get higher, & it hurts people to the extent that they get arsey when they lose is hardly "fun".

Yep I would agree with that. Poker should first and foremost be about fun and enjoyment of the game. And that has got seriously lost in this 'if you're not crushing you're nobody' promotion most of the sites engaged in. I like to think our mags have trod the line between promoting skill and fun equally, but am sure we've got it wrong too.

It's important to note though that it's 100% wrong to say recreational players all enjoy poker. Most of them lose money, often money they can't afford to lose. Sorry but that's true. It makes them angry, or upset. Nobody likes to lose. Not really. The motivation to play isn't JUST to win though. That's the difference.

The trouble with gambling is that for it to be fun it has to hurt a bit. That's why I could never really seriously play $0.01/$0.02 and enjoy it. But I can multi-table $0.05/$0.10 and enjoy it.

You can explain my thoughts better than I can.

Yes, it has to hurt a tad, but some folks have the backbone to handle it in a dignified manner, others shout & holler. Even if we don't shout & holler, it does not mean it does not hurt. 

PS - Fancy beng a ghost-writer?

[AlunB]

Sky didn't block it.

HEM just doesn't work with the Sky software because the format of the hand histories generated on Sky is different to most other sites and there aren't enough players that want it for HEM to make the necessary adjustments to make HEM compatible with the site.

If the sites really wanted to block tracking software, they could do it tomorrow. Pokerstars has a list of illegal software and it detects when this software is being run alongside the poker client. At the moment you get an automated email warning from security. They used to do this with sharkscope before they threatened legal action and sharkscope agreed to require players to opt-in for their stats to be shown. It would take seconds to make a change so that players running HEM/PokerTracker can't log in. They're just smart enough to know that the rake that they would drive away (especially in Europe, where there are loads of sits to choose from) isn't even close to the rake generated by players that would play there if trackers were banned, but wouldn't currently.

The model of a poker site with no pros has been tried. Cool Hand Poker on the Microgaming network are doing this. Ever heard of them? Probably not.

Boss taking steps to block tracking software is pretty comical. Its not like they are in any sort of market position to be able to dictate this sort of stuff. The high raking regs will just play elsewhere.

Hi Dan,

Sky Poker block third party tracking software.

If people come up with Heath Robinson workarounds, we quickly block them, too, as soon as we become aware of their existence, which is usually pretty quickly.

We would never knowingly allow HEM, or any form of HUD. Blocking these things is not difficult.  We do (currently) allow Sharkscope.

Now & then, someone claims that tracking software is allowed on Sky Poker, & we get flooded with complaints from our regulars. And I mean flooded, many of our players feel very strongly about this matter. (Including several promiinent blondes who just giq next door).  We promote the site as not allowing them, we do not allow them, & as far as I can tell, we never will.

I don't believe this can be seen as "dictating to the market" (as you suggest Boss try to), its just our policy. People have the choice where they play. The high-rakers will play elsewhere? Maybe so, but that is what it is.

It's often overlooked, especially on blonde, where there is a larger % of "pros" than on most Poker Forums, that the Online Poker Business revolves around high-rollers, pros, high-volume grinders & the like.  It does not - north of 90% of the worldwide poker population are "micro-stake" & medium stake players. (Levels are relative of course). 

I don't want to get spammy here, & we all know how good or bad sites such as Sky Poker are, relative to the Networks, 'Stars, Party etc. The fact is, the Online Poker market declined substantially last year, as you know, with some major European brands losing over 30% of their Margin & Traffic. Next door's numbers rose over 30% the last year (year ending 30/6/2012), & are expected to continue that trajectory this year. 

We will contine to forbid the use of third party tracking software, because we believe that is the correct decision for our business, & it's specific market focus.

Apologies if that came across spammy, but I felt it needed a reply, & I know you'll debate it constructively, & in good heart. I CAN debate that matter.

Therer really is a whole different online poker world out there you know, where peeps play for recreation, they never go near "staking" or the like, are not backed, & where "make-up" is assumed to be lipstick & mascara. And they actually enjoy poker.

Hope you are well, & that you & the boys in Leeds are getting the lot.

I was with you until this bit...

Fair point Alan, I explained that poorly.

On the whole, recreational players, at lower levels, enjoy the game far more than high-stake Online grinders, pros, & the like, who play the game for a living, or are up to their eyes in make-up, & the pressure that goes with it. IMO, of course.

I downsized a goodly while back, & I've never enjoyed the game so much as I have since then. Having no bankroll pressure, & playing purely for fun, makes poker a truly wonderful game. When the stakes get higher, & it hurts people to the extent that they get arsey when they lose is hardly "fun".

Undoubtedly Sky seems to have a great community, unfortunately that does not mean that they don't get arsey when they lose.  I have mini view on so can't see the chat, several screens on the go, but still get to see my fair share of abuse from that one.

FWIW I don't visit that forum much, but the thread title "Thanks for busting me and taking all my bankroll " amused me way more than it should.  So much amusement on the internet today, props especially to Mantis.

True what you say about smaller tournaments, poker is much more enjoyable with the pressure off.

The entire gambling industry is built around making happy losers. Poker thought it was different. It's not.

[tikay]

In my defence, if I didn't post little stories, wittyish observations and sarcastic comments on Tips for Tikay, all I'd have left would be losing tips.

And no one would want that.

That thread works not in spite of those stories you & others tell, but because of them.

It's a lovely thread imo, we debate stuff so well, no aftertiming, no "I told you so", no trolls, (even Herbie behaves himself) & most seem to enjoy the banter, & the ups & downs of the punting. We make a little money, too.   

[AlunB]

PS - Fancy beng a ghost-writer?

Ironically yes I do. Know anyone famous?

[tikay]

PS - Fancy beng a ghost-writer?

Ironically yes I do. Know anyone famous?

You have to be famous to write a book?

[AlunB]

PS - Fancy beng a ghost-writer?

Ironically yes I do. Know anyone famous?

You have to be famous to write a book?

Seems that way these days sadly.

[TommyD]

Sky didn't block it.

HEM just doesn't work with the Sky software because the format of the hand histories generated on Sky is different to most other sites and there aren't enough players that want it for HEM to make the necessary adjustments to make HEM compatible with the site.

If the sites really wanted to block tracking software, they could do it tomorrow. Pokerstars has a list of illegal software and it detects when this software is being run alongside the poker client. At the moment you get an automated email warning from security. They used to do this with sharkscope before they threatened legal action and sharkscope agreed to require players to opt-in for their stats to be shown. It would take seconds to make a change so that players running HEM/PokerTracker can't log in. They're just smart enough to know that the rake that they would drive away (especially in Europe, where there are loads of sits to choose from) isn't even close to the rake generated by players that would play there if trackers were banned, but wouldn't currently.

The model of a poker site with no pros has been tried. Cool Hand Poker on the Microgaming network are doing this. Ever heard of them? Probably not.

Boss taking steps to block tracking software is pretty comical. Its not like they are in any sort of market position to be able to dictate this sort of stuff. The high raking regs will just play elsewhere.

Hi Dan,

Sky Poker block third party tracking software.

If people come up with Heath Robinson workarounds, we quickly block them, too, as soon as we become aware of their existence, which is usually pretty quickly.

We would never knowingly allow HEM, or any form of HUD. Blocking these things is not difficult.  We do (currently) allow Sharkscope.

Now & then, someone claims that tracking software is allowed on Sky Poker, & we get flooded with complaints from our regulars. And I mean flooded, many of our players feel very strongly about this matter. (Including several promiinent blondes who just giq next door).  We promote the site as not allowing them, we do not allow them, & as far as I can tell, we never will.

I don't believe this can be seen as "dictating to the market" (as you suggest Boss try to), its just our policy. People have the choice where they play. The high-rakers will play elsewhere? Maybe so, but that is what it is.

It's often overlooked, especially on blonde, where there is a larger % of "pros" than on most Poker Forums, that the Online Poker Business revolves around high-rollers, pros, high-volume grinders & the like.  It does not - north of 90% of the worldwide poker population are "micro-stake" & medium stake players. (Levels are relative of course). 

I don't want to get spammy here, & we all know how good or bad sites such as Sky Poker are, relative to the Networks, 'Stars, Party etc. The fact is, the Online Poker market declined substantially last year, as you know, with some major European brands losing over 30% of their Margin & Traffic. Next door's numbers rose over 30% the last year (year ending 30/6/2012), & are expected to continue that trajectory this year. 

We will contine to forbid the use of third party tracking software, because we believe that is the correct decision for our business, & it's specific market focus.

Apologies if that came across spammy, but I felt it needed a reply, & I know you'll debate it constructively, & in good heart. I CAN debate that matter.

Therer really is a whole different online poker world out there you know, where peeps play for recreation, they never go near "staking" or the like, are not backed, & where "make-up" is assumed to be lipstick & mascara. And they actually enjoy poker.

Hope you are well, & that you & the boys in Leeds are getting the lot.

I was with you until this bit...

Fair point Alan, I explained that poorly.

On the whole, recreational players, at lower levels, enjoy the game far more than high-stake Online grinders, pros, & the like, who play the game for a living, or are up to their eyes in make-up, & the pressure that goes with it. IMO, of course.

I downsized a goodly while back, & I've never enjoyed the game so much as I have since then. Having no bankroll pressure, & playing purely for fun, makes poker a truly wonderful game. When the stakes get higher, & it hurts people to the extent that they get arsey when they lose is hardly "fun".

Undoubtedly Sky seems to have a great community, unfortunately that does not mean that they don't get arsey when they lose.  I have mini view on so can't see the chat, several screens on the go, but still get to see my fair share of abuse from that one.

FWIW I don't visit that forum much, but the thread title "Thanks for busting me and taking all my bankroll " amused me way more than it should.  So much amusement on the internet today, props especially to Mantis.

True what you say about smaller tournaments, poker is much more enjoyable with the pressure off.

Having recently returned to Stars to grind some tournies I can confirm that while you do get some keyboard warrior chat on Sky, it is a fraction of the stuff you get on Stars.  I don't know if it's a bad run lately but on Stars every other bustout seems to be accompanied with some sort of insult/threat.

On that thread, yes it is pretty amusing but if you read the lot you see that it's been turned around somewhat with some really decent advice and 'tough love.'  Now imagine that thread started on 2+2, what would be the result?

[tikay]

Sky didn't block it.

HEM just doesn't work with the Sky software because the format of the hand histories generated on Sky is different to most other sites and there aren't enough players that want it for HEM to make the necessary adjustments to make HEM compatible with the site.

If the sites really wanted to block tracking software, they could do it tomorrow. Pokerstars has a list of illegal software and it detects when this software is being run alongside the poker client. At the moment you get an automated email warning from security. They used to do this with sharkscope before they threatened legal action and sharkscope agreed to require players to opt-in for their stats to be shown. It would take seconds to make a change so that players running HEM/PokerTracker can't log in. They're just smart enough to know that the rake that they would drive away (especially in Europe, where there are loads of sits to choose from) isn't even close to the rake generated by players that would play there if trackers were banned, but wouldn't currently.

The model of a poker site with no pros has been tried. Cool Hand Poker on the Microgaming network are doing this. Ever heard of them? Probably not.

Boss taking steps to block tracking software is pretty comical. Its not like they are in any sort of market position to be able to dictate this sort of stuff. The high raking regs will just play elsewhere.

Hi Dan,

Sky Poker block third party tracking software.

If people come up with Heath Robinson workarounds, we quickly block them, too, as soon as we become aware of their existence, which is usually pretty quickly.

We would never knowingly allow HEM, or any form of HUD. Blocking these things is not difficult.  We do (currently) allow Sharkscope.

Now & then, someone claims that tracking software is allowed on Sky Poker, & we get flooded with complaints from our regulars. And I mean flooded, many of our players feel very strongly about this matter. (Including several promiinent blondes who just giq next door).  We promote the site as not allowing them, we do not allow them, & as far as I can tell, we never will.

I don't believe this can be seen as "dictating to the market" (as you suggest Boss try to), its just our policy. People have the choice where they play. The high-rakers will play elsewhere? Maybe so, but that is what it is.

It's often overlooked, especially on blonde, where there is a larger % of "pros" than on most Poker Forums, that the Online Poker Business revolves around high-rollers, pros, high-volume grinders & the like.  It does not - north of 90% of the worldwide poker population are "micro-stake" & medium stake players. (Levels are relative of course). 

I don't want to get spammy here, & we all know how good or bad sites such as Sky Poker are, relative to the Networks, 'Stars, Party etc. The fact is, the Online Poker market declined substantially last year, as you know, with some major European brands losing over 30% of their Margin & Traffic. Next door's numbers rose over 30% the last year (year ending 30/6/2012), & are expected to continue that trajectory this year. 

We will contine to forbid the use of third party tracking software, because we believe that is the correct decision for our business, & it's specific market focus.

Apologies if that came across spammy, but I felt it needed a reply, & I know you'll debate it constructively, & in good heart. I CAN debate that matter.

Therer really is a whole different online poker world out there you know, where peeps play for recreation, they never go near "staking" or the like, are not backed, & where "make-up" is assumed to be lipstick & mascara. And they actually enjoy poker.

Hope you are well, & that you & the boys in Leeds are getting the lot.

I was with you until this bit...

Fair point Alan, I explained that poorly.

On the whole, recreational players, at lower levels, enjoy the game far more than high-stake Online grinders, pros, & the like, who play the game for a living, or are up to their eyes in make-up, & the pressure that goes with it. IMO, of course.

I downsized a goodly while back, & I've never enjoyed the game so much as I have since then. Having no bankroll pressure, & playing purely for fun, makes poker a truly wonderful game. When the stakes get higher, & it hurts people to the extent that they get arsey when they lose is hardly "fun".

Undoubtedly Sky seems to have a great community, unfortunately that does not mean that they don't get arsey when they lose.  I have mini view on so can't see the chat, several screens on the go, but still get to see my fair share of abuse from that one.

FWIW I don't visit that forum much, but the thread title "Thanks for busting me and taking all my bankroll " amused me way more than it should.  So much amusement on the internet today, props especially to Mantis.

True what you say about smaller tournaments, poker is much more enjoyable with the pressure off.

Having recently returned to Stars to grind some tournies I can confirm that while you do get some keyboard warrior chat on Sky, it is a fraction of the stuff you get on Stars.  I don't know if it's a bad run lately but on Stars every other bustout seems to be accompanied with some sort of insult/threat.

On that thread, yes it is pretty amusing but if you read the lot you see that it's been turned around somewhat with some really decent advice and 'tough love.'  Now imagine that thread started on 2+2, what would be the result?

I think that is just the way the Online world is going these days, Tommy. People online seem to say all sorts of dreadful things they would never dream of saying in real life, because they CAN, as they think they are not accountable.

But there is a nice side, too, let's not forget that. I don't know where all the venom comes from, lack of balance I guess, but there's genuine warmth, too, & lots of it. 

Click to see full-size image.

[AlunB]

Maybe it's the smaller community that makes people less minded to act like complete dicks. For example on here most people know who each other are in real life and I'm sure that makes people act with a bit more courtesy towards one another. That's definitely a good thing.

The attitude of some people on twitter, facebook and yes 4.com makes me genuinely sad at times.

[JK]

Personally, I find the whole chat warrior thing hilarious. If I get lucky against someone or play a hand badly and get there, I'll instantly go to the chat (I normally have the box on info) and wait for it. I'll usually use Google translate if its foreign too, those are even more amusing.

However, I'd never dream of doing it myself. Live, online or down the local. I think its just classless and makes you look a tool.

In the Grand Prix I had a kid (younger than myself) go mental at me when I called his expertly thought out triple barrel bluff with 3rd pair. He went off on one for about 20 minutes about how I'm the biggest fish ever etc. I actually just sat there with the biggest grin on my face agreeing with him. Funnily enough, he hasnt spoke to me since!

[Tal]

PS - Fancy beng a ghost-writer?

Ironically yes I do. Know anyone famous?

You have to be famous to write a book?

It's the only criterion these days

[tikay]

Maybe it's the smaller community that makes people less minded to act like complete dicks. For example on here most people know who each other are in real life and I'm sure that makes people act with a bit more courtesy towards one another. That's definitely a good thing.

The attitude of some people on twitter, facebook and yes 4.com makes me genuinely sad at times.

That word just jumped off the page, Alan, & I could not think why.

So I used the blonde "Search" facility, & it would seem that in 7 years, 1.6 million Posts, & Heaven knows how many words, that particular word has only been used on blonde around 12 times, excluding "quotes".

Sadly incongruous, perhaps?

[tikay]

PS - Fancy beng a ghost-writer?

Ironically yes I do. Know anyone famous?

You have to be famous to write a book?

It's the only criterion these days

If the motive is "sales", maybe, but it's not a commercial venture.

[nirvana]

Maybe it's the smaller community that makes people less minded to act like complete dicks. For example on here most people know who each other are in real life and I'm sure that makes people act with a bit more courtesy towards one another. That's definitely a good thing.

The attitude of some people on twitter, facebook and yes 4.com makes me genuinely sad at times.

That word just jumped off the page, Alan, & I could not think why.

So I used the blonde "Search" facility, & it would seem that in 7 years, 1.6 million Posts, & Heaven knows how many words, that particular word has only been used on blonde around 12 times, excluding "quotes".

Sadly incongruous, perhaps?

People don't go round saying I'm now going to show you some courtesy, they just do it (unless they're in a black and white film)

[pokerfan]

Gl today sir.