Vegas & The Aftermath - Diary

[AlunB]

Interestingly the saying 'To coin a phrase' is a good example of something's original meaning becoming the opposite due to ironic usage.

[tikay]

Thanks Alun.

Do you mean, in the modern sense, unintentionally ironic?

It is definitely that!

[tikay]

Interestingly the saying 'To coin a phrase' is a good example of something's original meaning becoming the opposite due to ironic usage.

I think, originally, it was a sort of excuse or apology for the drivel that followed? Now, it it just a phrase, or so I believe.

[RED-DOG]

The part that caught my eye was this;
'The mistreatment at Fort VIII came to a halt when an inspection delegation from Geneva, Switzerland arrived.[2] A brave soldier named Charlie Cavendish told the inspectors of the horrors the prisoners had experienced at the camp even though the Germans had tried to cover this up prior to the inspection.[2] Fort VIII was being shut down and the prisoners would be transferred. Cavendish knew beforehand that he would die at the hands of the SS for his actions but did so anyways in an effort to save his comrades and fellow prisoners.[2] Cavendish was missing at roll call the next day and was never seen or heard from again but forever remembered for his kind heart.'

That is one of the bravest acts I've ever heard of.
I can't imagine myself ever having the courage to do that.

Extraordinary, because he knew he was sentencing himself to death by doing so.

In fact, most of the stuff on that link was just as amazing.

I'm so glad Carl Posted it up, but at the same time, it's a bit of a reality check.

I've seem hundreds of holocaust photo's, but two in particular stand out where bravery is concerned.

One was taken in the marshalling yard at Auschwitz during a selection (A selection is where they decide who will go to the labour camp to be worked and starved to death and who would go directly to the gas chambers.) It shows a prisoner in a torn and filthy striped shirt, wearing only one shoe. The prisoner is addressing an immaculately dressed German officer. What courage it must have taken to speak to a man who was almost certain to kill you for your trouble.

The other shows a emaciated Gypsy man facing a firing squad. He is holding his shirt open and offering his bare chest in a final act of defiance.

[tikay]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01p8w38/The_Golden_Age_of_Steam_Railways_Small_is_Beautiful/

The golden age of steam railways bbc4

Top man - thank you!

That's tonight's R & R sorted.

[AlunB]

Interestingly the saying 'To coin a phrase' is a good example of something's original meaning becoming the opposite due to ironic usage.

I think, originally, it was a sort of excuse or apology for the drivel that followed? Now, it it just a phrase, or so I believe.

That's not my understanding no. To coin means to create. So originally it meant to create a saying. But it was used ironically after a cliche so often that became it's common usage.

This link explains it better than me http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/coin-a-phrase.html

[AlunB]

Thanks Alun.

Do you mean, in the modern sense, unintentionally ironic?

It is definitely that!

I think for some people perhaps, but in a lot of cases there is an implicit meaning in deliberately using a word out of context or ironically. For example calling someone a hero for doing something stupid or pointless that is funny.

The trouble is of course for every one person who uses it well, there are 100 who use it badly.

Almost identically to my example of 'to coin a phrase'

[tikay]

Thought you might be interested in this. I don't think it's fully up and running yet, but might be quite interesting.

http://bombsight.org/#15/51.7049/-0.1544

Blimey!

Did you see how many bombs landed on Central London?

How do people reasearch & build these websites?

The internet really has an amazing ability to inform.

[tikay]

Interestingly the saying 'To coin a phrase' is a good example of something's original meaning becoming the opposite due to ironic usage.

I think, originally, it was a sort of excuse or apology for the drivel that followed? Now, it it just a phrase, or so I believe.

That's not my understanding no. To coin means to create. So originally it meant to create a saying. But it was used ironically after a cliche so often that became it's common usage.

This link explains it better than me http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/coin-a-phrase.html

Ahh, got it now. "coin" as invent. Or not.

Thanks.

[tikay]

Thanks Alun.

Do you mean, in the modern sense, unintentionally ironic?

It is definitely that!

I think for some people perhaps, but in a lot of cases there is an implicit meaning in deliberately using a word out of context or ironically. For example calling someone a hero for doing something stupid or pointless that is funny.

The trouble is of course for every one person who uses it well, there are 100 who use it badly.

Almost identically to my example of 'to coin a phrase'

I well understand irony, but I think in this case ("hero") it is the part I highlightened & enboldened.

Don't misunderstand me, I enjoy seeing language evolve. I just don't always understand it. And, quite clearly, I am not alone.

[AlunB]

Thanks Alun.

Do you mean, in the modern sense, unintentionally ironic?

It is definitely that!

I think for some people perhaps, but in a lot of cases there is an implicit meaning in deliberately using a word out of context or ironically. For example calling someone a hero for doing something stupid or pointless that is funny.

The trouble is of course for every one person who uses it well, there are 100 who use it badly.

Almost identically to my example of 'to coin a phrase'

I well understand irony, but I think in this case ("hero") it is the part I highlightened & enboldened.

Don't misunderstand me, I enjoy seeing language evolve. I just don't always understand it. And, quite clearly, I am not alone.

Language is dynamic, and that's a good thing in my view. But it does mean we have to keep up I'm afraid.

http://writinghood.com/style/grammar/eight-words-which-have-completely-changed-their-meaning-over-time/

I think in your example, if it's the same one I'm thinking of, the meaning was definitely a hero in an ironic sense. If it wasn't then I quite agree.

[TightEnd]

I think we'd like to assume the use is often ironic. I doubt very much it is

Anti-hero to us perhaps, hero to others.

[AlunB]

I think we'd like to assume the use is often ironic. I doubt very much it is

Anti-hero to us perhaps, hero to others.

Yeah you're probably right. I forget I am an old man these days and how differently I saw things in my 20s.

[kinboshi]

If enough people abuse language enough, the abused terms can become 'standard'.  For example: factoid.  Used to mean (and still does) a 'fact' that has become widely accepted, even though there is no truth to it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factoid

So, an example given there is about the Great Wall of China being visible from space.  It's an urban myth, a factoid. 

However, many use factoid to mean a trivial fact, which is kind of ironic.

[AlunB]

If enough people abuse language enough, the abused terms can become 'standard'.  For example: factoid.  Used to mean (and still does) a 'fact' that has become widely accepted, even though there is no truth to it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factoid

So, an example given there is about the Great Wall of China being visible from space.  It's an urban myth, a factoid. 

However, many use factoid to mean a trivial fact, which is kind of ironic.

Don't even get me started on crescendo...