Vegas & The Aftermath - Diary

[The_duke]

Here you go classic

[kinboshi]

AlexMartin

I LOLed

[turny]

so did the person running the room inform the dealer what she done was wrong?

think there would have been plenty of people at the table keen to advise her what she did was wrong!!!

yes but by the way tony told it in his diary post it seems it was just laughed off.she may not listen and should not listen to those at the table as they might give her false advice which may cause further problems in the future, the cardroom supervisor should have been called for a ruling and then she should of been informed of the correct precedure by him/her.

thats how half the mistakes are caused in the first place listening to mis informed players

Exactly that - it was "just laughed off". The Dealer knew the Rules, she simply became flummoxed by various things, & her intercourse with Expressman - "you passing?" - "no I want my change" - "you passing?" - "no I want my change" - etc. Also, her grasp of English - with all the banter it can't be easy to understand the humorous nuances - momentarily failed her & she just got confused. I don't think it's necessary in these situations, (& the whole table thought the same seemingly) where someone has made a mistake - we all make them, & she knew she'd boobed - to rub peoples noses in it, or belittle them. It was just a mistake, & she well knew she'd messed up. Nobody got hurt. She was badly unsettled by the incident, but everyone on the table took the trouble to reassure her when she later left the Table, to ty & make her feel a little more comfortable.

The very first time I got done for speeding I was just fuming at my stupidity, absolutely beside myself with anger. I knew I'd been daft. I went home & told my lady-of-the-moment  & she said "well that was bloody stupid, wasent it".....As Statements of the bleeding obvious go, it was horrendous, & completely un-necessary. That was 20 odd years ago, & I've never forgiven her, or forgotten her stupid comment. So much un-necessary conflict in life emenates from poor people skills & an inability to grasp basic human psychology.
 
I just thought it was interesting. Here we have two inviolable Rules clashing - "mucked cards are dead cards" & "protected hands are protected come what may". Just shows that in some cases, common-sense is the best & only solution.

By the way, almost all TD's & wannabee TD's can recite, parrot-fashion, the Rules on Mucked Cards, & Protected Hands. They just need a memory. It takes one with brains to make a logical decision when two rules clash.

Respect to those involved for handling it so sensibly.

i wasn't suggesting that she should have her nose rubbed in it or to be belittled but it seems like your comments are suggesting i was.

also there different types of people skills including being firm but fair when a mistake is made so that the situation does not arrive again.

you say that she realised after that she made a mistake but under no circumstances she should not lean across and grab a players cards from in front of him, and as you said:

Now, Ian's cards had been....

a) Behind the line

b) Protected by a card  protector

c) He had his hands covering his cards & card protector.

if she had accidently took his cards then its a mistake, but by the way she done it according to your recollection of what happened it seems a bit more than a mistake to me.


tony you are a fantastic writer of words, a million times better than me, you are also very good at changing other peoples words to make it seem like they are saying something that they are not.

not once did i say she should be belittled and i would appreciate if you didnt try to make it look like i was trying to.

[boldie]

so did the person running the room inform the dealer what she done was wrong?

think there would have been plenty of people at the table keen to advise her what she did was wrong!!!

yes but by the way tony told it in his diary post it seems it was just laughed off.she may not listen and should not listen to those at the table as they might give her false advice which may cause further problems in the future, the cardroom supervisor should have been called for a ruling and then she should of been informed of the correct precedure by him/her.

thats how half the mistakes are caused in the first place listening to mis informed players

Exactly that - it was "just laughed off". The Dealer knew the Rules, she simply became flummoxed by various things, & her intercourse with Expressman - "you passing?" - "no I want my change" - "you passing?" - "no I want my change" - etc. Also, her grasp of English - with all the banter it can't be easy to understand the humorous nuances - momentarily failed her & she just got confused. I don't think it's necessary in these situations, (& the whole table thought the same seemingly) where someone has made a mistake - we all make them, & she knew she'd boobed - to rub peoples noses in it, or belittle them. It was just a mistake, & she well knew she'd messed up. Nobody got hurt. She was badly unsettled by the incident, but everyone on the table took the trouble to reassure her when she later left the Table, to ty & make her feel a little more comfortable.

The very first time I got done for speeding I was just fuming at my stupidity, absolutely beside myself with anger. I knew I'd been daft. I went home & told my lady-of-the-moment  & she said "well that was bloody stupid, wasent it".....As Statements of the bleeding obvious go, it was horrendous, & completely un-necessary. That was 20 odd years ago, & I've never forgiven her, or forgotten her stupid comment. So much un-necessary conflict in life emenates from poor people skills & an inability to grasp basic human psychology.
 
I just thought it was interesting. Here we have two inviolable Rules clashing - "mucked cards are dead cards" & "protected hands are protected come what may". Just shows that in some cases, common-sense is the best & only solution.

By the way, almost all TD's & wannabee TD's can recite, parrot-fashion, the Rules on Mucked Cards, & Protected Hands. They just need a memory. It takes one with brains to make a logical decision when two rules clash.

Respect to those involved for handling it so sensibly.

i wasn't suggesting that she should have her nose rubbed in it or to be belittled but it seems like your comments are suggesting i was.

also there different types of people skills including being firm but fair when a mistake is made so that the situation does not arrive again.

you say that she realised after that she made a mistake but under no circumstances she should not lean across and grab a players cards from in front of him, and as you said:

Now, Ian's cards had been....

a) Behind the line

b) Protected by a card  protector

c) He had his hands covering his cards & card protector.

if she had accidently took his cards then its a mistake, but by the way she done it according to your recollection of what happened it seems a bit more than a mistake to me.


tony you are a fantastic writer of words, a million times better than me, you are also very good at changing other peoples words to make it seem like they are saying something that they are not.

not once did i say she should be belittled and i would appreciate if you didnt try to make it look like i was trying to.

but you do agree she should be poked with a stick until she bleeds, no?

[celtic]

gentle kicking in the car park imo

[ifm]

gentle kicking in the car park imo

Totectors ftw.

[tikay]

so did the person running the room inform the dealer what she done was wrong?

think there would have been plenty of people at the table keen to advise her what she did was wrong!!!

yes but by the way tony told it in his diary post it seems it was just laughed off.she may not listen and should not listen to those at the table as they might give her false advice which may cause further problems in the future, the cardroom supervisor should have been called for a ruling and then she should of been informed of the correct precedure by him/her.

thats how half the mistakes are caused in the first place listening to mis informed players

Exactly that - it was "just laughed off". The Dealer knew the Rules, she simply became flummoxed by various things, & her intercourse with Expressman - "you passing?" - "no I want my change" - "you passing?" - "no I want my change" - etc. Also, her grasp of English - with all the banter it can't be easy to understand the humorous nuances - momentarily failed her & she just got confused. I don't think it's necessary in these situations, (& the whole table thought the same seemingly) where someone has made a mistake - we all make them, & she knew she'd boobed - to rub peoples noses in it, or belittle them. It was just a mistake, & she well knew she'd messed up. Nobody got hurt. She was badly unsettled by the incident, but everyone on the table took the trouble to reassure her when she later left the Table, to ty & make her feel a little more comfortable.

The very first time I got done for speeding I was just fuming at my stupidity, absolutely beside myself with anger. I knew I'd been daft. I went home & told my lady-of-the-moment  & she said "well that was bloody stupid, wasent it".....As Statements of the bleeding obvious go, it was horrendous, & completely un-necessary. That was 20 odd years ago, & I've never forgiven her, or forgotten her stupid comment. So much un-necessary conflict in life emenates from poor people skills & an inability to grasp basic human psychology.
 
I just thought it was interesting. Here we have two inviolable Rules clashing - "mucked cards are dead cards" & "protected hands are protected come what may". Just shows that in some cases, common-sense is the best & only solution.

By the way, almost all TD's & wannabee TD's can recite, parrot-fashion, the Rules on Mucked Cards, & Protected Hands. They just need a memory. It takes one with brains to make a logical decision when two rules clash.

Respect to those involved for handling it so sensibly.

i wasn't suggesting that she should have her nose rubbed in it or to be belittled but it seems like your comments are suggesting i was.

also there different types of people skills including being firm but fair when a mistake is made so that the situation does not arrive again.

you say that she realised after that she made a mistake but under no circumstances she should not lean across and grab a players cards from in front of him, and as you said:

Now, Ian's cards had been....

a) Behind the line

b) Protected by a card  protector

c) He had his hands covering his cards & card protector.

if she had accidently took his cards then its a mistake, but by the way she done it according to your recollection of what happened it seems a bit more than a mistake to me.


tony you are a fantastic writer of words, a million times better than me, you are also very good at changing other peoples words to make it seem like they are saying something that they are not.

not once did i say she should be belittled and i would appreciate if you didnt try to make it look like i was trying to.

Well, as I've tried to explain, with some care, a whole lot of stuff went off which just confused the girl. It was more an instictive "panic" by her than a mistake. (In my opinion). She just got all confused. I watched every moment of it, from start to finish - it was just one of those odd things.

People skills - I agree, we all do them different, me my way, you yours. And we all react different, too - some of us need a kick, some a cuddle, that's where the skill comes in. Neither are necessarily right or wrong, it's a specific case-for-case thing.

I most certainly never tried to put words in your mouth, or suggest you would belittle her. It was, as I stated, my view, & it remains so. It's a "style" I've used all my life in managing people, & in which I firmly believe, & it happened to be appropriate in this case, giving m the opening to re-iterate my long-held thoughts. In no way was I suggesting you would belittle her. I was outlining my view - my view - of the technique I believe to be correct, most especially in the case of this young lady. It may well be your technique, too, for all I know, which you are entitled to Post, just as I Posted mine.

It's a Diary of my thoughts. Please don't be taking offence because we think different, it's just an exchange of ideas & thoughts. I walk a mile in tight boots to avoid aggro, you should know that. If I wish to be offensive to you - & I don't - I'd so so privately, via PM, or on the dog.

But my point has still not been picked up. Forget the "mistake" or whatever we want to label it, that's happened, the milk has been spilt. How, when two hard & fast Rules clash, would this thing have been resolved by a good TD, had it not been for the common-sense of those involved? Remember, any TD can recite, parrot-fashion, Rules. The good ones interpret them though, that's the difference. And I'm curious what the decision would have been here.

I'm clearly gonna have to re-consider how I describe things. I penned it as I saw it, & I replied as I thought it. There's no hidden agenda Paul, no covert "digging" at you. I'm really not sure why everyone so readily gets on the front foot these days!

[The_nun]

People skills - I agree, we all do them different, me my way, you yours. And we all react different, too - some of us need a kick, some a cuddle, that's where the skill comes in. Neither are necessarily right or wrong, it's a specific case-for-case thing.


Tony , did i mention I you read MY MIND. X

[tikay]

I just can't get up-to-date with this diary. I've still got the Bash to write up, some extemely good & interesting news (to me) that went off last Monday & Tuesday, a DTD Tourney Report from last Tuesday, some stuff from Saturday which interests me, & I want to record. And I had the most wonderful day yesterday, nature-watching most of the day, & I've got a whole load of pics to put up from that, but I need to do some research first. Saw some amazing things, which were new to me, & which I don't understand, & spent some quality-time with special friends, away from poker.

Ended up at DTD last night, & the dire run of form continued, but at least I had another "magic moment" to savour.

Thewy, Red, Karabiner, were all there, marvellous.

They play seriously fast at DTD, but with a good structure, & 5k chips, you have time to play, & wait for the right spots.  At 25/50 in unopened Pots, a guy I just know as "I'll bet the Pot, (or "x") Sir" (almost his only words, ever) was making it 400, 500 & 600 to go, with raggy Aces I imagine, & you just have to sit & wait, until some ammo to take him on arrives, or until he busts early. Which, unfailingly he does.

I dribbled down to 3,000, but had the Table sussed by now, & the harem-scarem merchants had all long departed, & so I settled down to play some proper poker, & with no hands, I ran that up to 10k pretty quickly, in about two Levels, all nicked or bluffed, & that's as well as I've played for an age, though the Table was pretty A-B-C.

Then the moment of magic arrived, when, UTG, I made it 1,025 (Blinds 150-300, RA 50), with Aces, & a Gent round the back picked up his entire stack of about 8k & set them all-in the middle with theatrical aplomb. Happy Days! These are the moments we adore in poker, when someone moves in & you have the goods. He had Tens, hit, & I was down to dust, soon not even that. Busting, even having my Aces bust, after such a shocking week, when KK has been done by 8-8, & 8-8 by 8-10, all three times all-in pre, is no big deal, but I was so loving sharing a Table with Karabiner, & the expectation that Tom would be joining us soon. They were both grinding for England, & that's the best fun I can have in poker, playing with my special friends. Sadly, Thewy had gone very early.

I kept looking at them still grinding away (both Finalled, great stuff) & so wishing I was still in the Comp.

I'm heading South for two busy days in Feltham, so have stopped over in Luton tonight, & Compo & Tighty will both be there. Tighty must have had a worse run of form than me, he got two-outered in the Luton Final last night, but he just gets up & gets on with it, he's very stoic.

The beauty of a bad run of form is that hope that burns inside us, "maybe tonight"......

Luckily, I can still enjoy it even when swimming aganst the tide.

I'll be chirping something rotten tomorrow though if I Cash tonight.....

[Pelham Boy]

Great effort in tonights Hunt the Pro's TK!  11th out of 30 without playing a hand.

[Nakor]

Great effort in tonights Hunt the Pro's TK!  11th out of 30 without playing a hand.

Was he sitting out? - just thought he had rocked up 

[bobby1]

At the DTD team event a strange incident happened on one of the tables I was on where roughly the same thing happened, a guy made a raise pre flop, it went round the table and the guy had turned around to have a drink. The bet was called in one spot and then the dealer got back to original raiser and as he was turned away from the table and with his cards unprotected she took them away forgetting that it was his raise.

The dealer kinda realised the second she had done it as the guy turned back to find no cards but his 800 chips in the middle. A call for a ruling and Simon Trumper very calmly gave a ruling that the hand was dead, he apologised for the error but explained that its the players job to protect their cards. No moaning and groaning from the guy, he just said 'OK' and the dealer apologised and we moved on. These things happen but it was good to see the really professional way it was handled and the good grace it was taken, In some cardrooms there would have been 5 or 6 involved in the convo and a weak TD could easily make a bad call or try to find some mishmash  ruling that might pacify and that can cause more problems than it solves.

[turny]

so did the person running the room inform the dealer what she done was wrong?

think there would have been plenty of people at the table keen to advise her what she did was wrong!!!

yes but by the way tony told it in his diary post it seems it was just laughed off.she may not listen and should not listen to those at the table as they might give her false advice which may cause further problems in the future, the cardroom supervisor should have been called for a ruling and then she should of been informed of the correct precedure by him/her.

thats how half the mistakes are caused in the first place listening to mis informed players

Exactly that - it was "just laughed off". The Dealer knew the Rules, she simply became flummoxed by various things, & her intercourse with Expressman - "you passing?" - "no I want my change" - "you passing?" - "no I want my change" - etc. Also, her grasp of English - with all the banter it can't be easy to understand the humorous nuances - momentarily failed her & she just got confused. I don't think it's necessary in these situations, (& the whole table thought the same seemingly) where someone has made a mistake - we all make them, & she knew she'd boobed - to rub peoples noses in it, or belittle them. It was just a mistake, & she well knew she'd messed up. Nobody got hurt. She was badly unsettled by the incident, but everyone on the table took the trouble to reassure her when she later left the Table, to ty & make her feel a little more comfortable.

The very first time I got done for speeding I was just fuming at my stupidity, absolutely beside myself with anger. I knew I'd been daft. I went home & told my lady-of-the-moment  & she said "well that was bloody stupid, wasent it".....As Statements of the bleeding obvious go, it was horrendous, & completely un-necessary. That was 20 odd years ago, & I've never forgiven her, or forgotten her stupid comment. So much un-necessary conflict in life emenates from poor people skills & an inability to grasp basic human psychology.
 
I just thought it was interesting. Here we have two inviolable Rules clashing - "mucked cards are dead cards" & "protected hands are protected come what may". Just shows that in some cases, common-sense is the best & only solution.

By the way, almost all TD's & wannabee TD's can recite, parrot-fashion, the Rules on Mucked Cards, & Protected Hands. They just need a memory. It takes one with brains to make a logical decision when two rules clash.

Respect to those involved for handling it so sensibly.

i wasn't suggesting that she should have her nose rubbed in it or to be belittled but it seems like your comments are suggesting i was.

also there different types of people skills including being firm but fair when a mistake is made so that the situation does not arrive again.

you say that she realised after that she made a mistake but under no circumstances she should not lean across and grab a players cards from in front of him, and as you said:

Now, Ian's cards had been....

a) Behind the line

b) Protected by a card  protector

c) He had his hands covering his cards & card protector.

if she had accidently took his cards then its a mistake, but by the way she done it according to your recollection of what happened it seems a bit more than a mistake to me.


tony you are a fantastic writer of words, a million times better than me, you are also very good at changing other peoples words to make it seem like they are saying something that they are not.

not once did i say she should be belittled and i would appreciate if you didnt try to make it look like i was trying to.

Well, as I've tried to explain, with some care, a whole lot of stuff went off which just confused the girl. It was more an instictive "panic" by her than a mistake. (In my opinion). She just got all confused. I watched every moment of it, from start to finish - it was just one of those odd things.

People skills - I agree, we all do them different, me my way, you yours. And we all react different, too - some of us need a kick, some a cuddle, that's where the skill comes in. Neither are necessarily right or wrong, it's a specific case-for-case thing.

I most certainly never tried to put words in your mouth, or suggest you would belittle her. It was, as I stated, my view, & it remains so. It's a "style" I've used all my life in managing people, & in which I firmly believe, & it happened to be appropriate in this case, giving m the opening to re-iterate my long-held thoughts. In no way was I suggesting you would belittle her. I was outlining my view - my view - of the technique I believe to be correct, most especially in the case of this young lady. It may well be your technique, too, for all I know, which you are entitled to Post, just as I Posted mine.

It's a Diary of my thoughts. Please don't be taking offence because we think different, it's just an exchange of ideas & thoughts. I walk a mile in tight boots to avoid aggro, you should know that. If I wish to be offensive to you - & I don't - I'd so so privately, via PM, or on the dog.

But my point has still not been picked up. Forget the "mistake" or whatever we want to label it, that's happened, the milk has been spilt. How, when two hard & fast Rules clash, would this thing have been resolved by a good TD, had it not been for the common-sense of those involved? Remember, any TD can recite, parrot-fashion, Rules. The good ones interpret them though, that's the difference. And I'm curious what the decision would have been here.

I'm clearly gonna have to re-consider how I describe things. I penned it as I saw it, & I replied as I thought it. There's no hidden agenda Paul, no covert "digging" at you. I'm really not sure why everyone so readily gets on the front foot these days!

i have no idea either!

[turny]

At the DTD team event a strange incident happened on one of the tables I was on where roughly the same thing happened, a guy made a raise pre flop, it went round the table and the guy had turned around to have a drink. The bet was called in one spot and then the dealer got back to original raiser and as he was turned away from the table and with his cards unprotected she took them away forgetting that it was his raise.

The dealer kinda realised the second she had done it as the guy turned back to find no cards but his 800 chips in the middle. A call for a ruling and Simon Trumper very calmly gave a ruling that the hand was dead, he apologised for the error but explained that its the players job to protect their cards. No moaning and groaning from the guy, he just said 'OK' and the dealer apologised and we moved on. These things happen but it was good to see the really professional way it was handled and the good grace it was taken, In some cardrooms there would have been 5 or 6 involved in the convo and a weak TD could easily make a bad call or try to find some mishmash  ruling that might pacify and that can cause more problems than it solves.

the correct ruling and the correct way of handlng it imo

[tikay]

I just can't get up-to-date with this diary. I've still got the Bash to write up, some extemely good & interesting news (to me) that went off last Monday & Tuesday, a DTD Tourney Report from last Tuesday, some stuff from Saturday which interests me, & I want to record. And I had the most wonderful day yesterday, nature-watching most of the day, & I've got a whole load of pics to put up from that, but I need to do some research first. Saw some amazing things, which were new to me, & which I don't understand, & spent some quality-time with special friends, away from poker.

Ended up at DTD last night, & the dire run of form continued, but at least I had another "magic moment" to savour.

Thewy, Red, Karabiner, were all there, marvellous.

They play seriously fast at DTD, but with a good structure, & 5k chips, you have time to play, & wait for the right spots.  At 25/50 in unopened Pots, a guy I just know as "I'll bet the Pot, (or "x") Sir" (almost his only words, ever) was making it 400, 500 & 600 to go, with raggy Aces I imagine, & you just have to sit & wait, until some ammo to take him on arrives, or until he busts early. Which, unfailingly he does.

I dribbled down to 3,000, but had the Table sussed by now, & the harem-scarem merchants had all long departed, & so I settled down to play some proper poker, & with no hands, I ran that up to 10k pretty quickly, in about two Levels, all nicked or bluffed, & that's as well as I've played for an age, though the Table was pretty A-B-C.

Then the moment of magic arrived, when, UTG, I made it 1,025 (Blinds 150-300, RA 50), with Aces, & a Gent round the back picked up his entire stack of about 8k & set them all-in the middle with theatrical aplomb. Happy Days! These are the moments we adore in poker, when someone moves in & you have the goods. He had Tens, hit, & I was down to dust, soon not even that. Busting, even having my Aces bust, after such a shocking week, when KK has been done by 8-8, & 8-8 by 8-10, all three times all-in pre, is no big deal, but I was so loving sharing a Table with Karabiner, & the expectation that Tom would be joining us soon. They were both grinding for England, & that's the best fun I can have in poker, playing with my special friends. Sadly, Thewy had gone very early.

I kept looking at them still grinding away (both Finalled, great stuff) & so wishing I was still in the Comp.

I'm heading South for two busy days in Feltham, so have stopped over in Luton tonight, & Compo & Tighty will both be there. Tighty must have had a worse run of form than me, he got two-outered in the Luton Final last night, but he just gets up & gets on with it, he's very stoic.

The beauty of a bad run of form is that hope that burns inside us, "maybe tonight"......

Luckily, I can still enjoy it even when swimming aganst the tide.

I'll be chirping something rotten tomorrow though if I Cash tonight.....

Chirp.

I won't have a bad word said about those Poker Gods.

Chopped it Heads Up, £1,200.