Vegas & The Aftermath - Diary

[WarBwastard]

Posted by: WarBwastard

parties are elected on the strength of their manifestos.

“It is a good treaty for Britain and the New Europe. We will put it to the British people in a referendum” - Labour Manifesto 2005

I never said they stick to them. 

[MANTIS01]

Posted by: WarBwastard

parties are elected on the strength of their manifestos.

“It is a good treaty for Britain and the New Europe. We will put it to the British people in a referendum” - Labour Manifesto 2005

I never said they stick to them. 

+1

[nirvana]

Rhetorically speaking, setting aside who notionally 'started it' in the dim and distant - it would be interesting to know how people think Israel should respond today.

[bolt pp]

it would be interesting to know how people think Israel should respond today.

would you find it tolerable if someone said: "do some bombings"?

[nirvana]

Not really

[bolt pp]

Not really

Just wondering what the perameters for answering were and whether or not you'd find opinons similar to that of your own more interesting than others.

[nirvana]

The question was rhetorical, but for the record, I can't find a way to support the Israelis dropping bombs on people. I'm fascinated by all opinons, even yours.

It feels like the Israelis get more condemnation than we get for bombing Afghanistanis or Iraqis or anyone else we've bombed over the last 70 years or so.

I guess it's no real surprise that the world is long on condemnation and short on ideas to resolve desperate issues.

[Rod Paradise]

I think the good idea would have been not to create the state of Israel and arm it to the teeth in the first place....

And how long do you think The State of Israel would have lasted had it not been "armed to the teeth" ?

It is worth bearing in mind that the Israeli armed forces are called the IDF, Israeli Defense Force.

Yeah so if it hadnt been created we wouldn't have all the civilians dying!!

Oh and HAMAS means "Islamic Resistance Movement" can't both just be defending!

What next Flushy, Holocaust denial ?

I am absolutely shocked at you stooping to that level Ralph.

The people who should know most about being the victims of attempted genocide are those perpetrating it now.  They're not in Holocaust denial - they've decided 'let's do it first' which is WORSE than denial.

I can't believe that you really think it's "Attempted genocide", get a grip Rod, that's the last thing they want to do.

I've got a sound grip Ralph, I quite assure you. Of course Israel's anti-genocide stance is made so clear in their behaviour....

There is no political solution acceptable to both.

The foundation of Hamas' manifesto is the total destruction of the State of Israel.

Democracy does not work either when faced with suicide bombers who see civilians as legitimate targets and an enemy that strategecally launches it's rockets from residential areas so that any reprisal is bound to result in civilian casualties which it then uses to try and  elicit international sympathy.

Let's look at this - Hamas were democratically elected, so Israel reinstated the blockades because the democratic vote didn't get the result they wanted. What vote did they expect after their treatment of the Palestinians? Was Israel democratically created? erm no - it was created by Britain, and as recorded in the Hansard, Lord Balfour, when describing the plan called it our own little Ulster in the Middle East, where it will serve us well.

I'd like to ask how Hamas can avoid launching rockets from residential areas (if indeed they must launch rockets)? The Gaza Strip is the most densely populated area of the Middle East. Why is that?

Click to see full-size image.

So the rockets are hitting illegally, undemocratically seized Palestinian land.... but Israel needed it for lebensraum, and democracy and peaceful behaviour doesn't seem to be a pre-requisite for Israel to get their views heard anyway.

As people are driven off their lands into smaller and smaller areas, or into refugee camps, they get increasingly desperate. What came first, the clearances or the suicide bombers?

[Karabiner]

Too many people wallow in the rhetoric about the Middle-East with all too little knowledge of the true facts imho.

Says the man in Nottingham.

I am going to side with the experts here and say Israel is being bad.....

Yes I do live in Nottingham James.

But I did live in Israel for several years so I do feel that I have a better grasp of Middle-East realpolitik than most of those posting here on the subject who's main resource for forming what I feel are mainly misguided opinions would appear to be random quotes from The Guardian and Orla Guerin, ie rhetoric.

[Jon MW]

...

It feels like the Israelis get more condemnation than we get for bombing Afghanistanis or Iraqis or anyone else we've bombed over the last 70 years or so.

...

I think a more appropriate comparison would be the UK's war with the IRA.

Obviously our side weren't entirely 'clean' in their approach to that - but we did at least avoid sending in air strikes.

[Rod Paradise]

Too many people wallow in the rhetoric about the Middle-East with all too little knowledge of the true facts imho.

Says the man in Nottingham.

I am going to side with the experts here and say Israel is being bad.....

Yes I do live in Nottingham James.

But I did live in Israel for several years so I do feel that I have a better grasp of Middle-East realpolitik than most of those posting here on the subject who's main resource for forming what I feel are mainly misguided opinions would appear to be random quotes from The Guardian and Orla Guerin, ie rhetoric.

Spouting about misguided opinions and ignoring facts now Ralph? Or was my post to accurate for your "I lived there" knowledge?

[Karabiner]

Too many people wallow in the rhetoric about the Middle-East with all too little knowledge of the true facts imho.

Says the man in Nottingham.

I am going to side with the experts here and say Israel is being bad.....

Yes I do live in Nottingham James.

But I did live in Israel for several years so I do feel that I have a better grasp of Middle-East realpolitik than most of those posting here on the subject who's main resource for forming what I feel are mainly misguided opinions would appear to be random quotes from The Guardian and Orla Guerin, ie rhetoric.

Spouting about misguided opinions and ignoring facts now Ralph? Or was my post to accurrate for your "I lived there" knowledge?

Rod there is no point in debating this subject with someone who believes that the Israelis are persuing a policy of genocide. As long as that is a cornerstone of your argument we will have nothing to discuss on this matter.

As I said in my previous post I feel that many of your opinions are misguided, however you wish to spin the statistics.

That is my opinion, perhaps we should just agree to disagree.

[Rod Paradise]

Too many people wallow in the rhetoric about the Middle-East with all too little knowledge of the true facts imho.

Says the man in Nottingham.

I am going to side with the experts here and say Israel is being bad.....

Yes I do live in Nottingham James.

But I did live in Israel for several years so I do feel that I have a better grasp of Middle-East realpolitik than most of those posting here on the subject who's main resource for forming what I feel are mainly misguided opinions would appear to be random quotes from The Guardian and Orla Guerin, ie rhetoric.

Spouting about misguided opinions and ignoring facts now Ralph? Or was my post to accurrate for your "I lived there" knowledge?

Rod there is no point in debating this subject with someone who believes that the Israelis are persuing a policy of genocide. As long as that is a cornerstone of your argument we will have nothing to discuss on this matter.

As I said in my previous post I feel that many of your opinions are misguided, however you wish to spin the statistics.

That is my opinion, perhaps we should just agree to disagree.

So that map was spinning? The quote from the Hansard was spinning? Denying access to medical supplies is spinning? The refusal to let a ship of humanitarian supplies through was spinning?

If you are going to defend a Government hell bent of erradicating a race from that race's home then at least have the guts to TRY and discuss it instead of trying the old "you're too extreme to argue with" ploy (only after the good old "Holocaust Denial" ploy). Try and change my argument, probably genocide was too strong, I can go with ethnic cleansing if it helps you. (of course you CAN'T defend that one).

[kinboshi]

It certainly not genocide, but it's definitely not humane and it is infringing on the human rights of the people who live in Palestine.

[Karabiner]

Too many people wallow in the rhetoric about the Middle-East with all too little knowledge of the true facts imho.

Says the man in Nottingham.

I am going to side with the experts here and say Israel is being bad.....

Yes I do live in Nottingham James.

But I did live in Israel for several years so I do feel that I have a better grasp of Middle-East realpolitik than most of those posting here on the subject who's main resource for forming what I feel are mainly misguided opinions would appear to be random quotes from The Guardian and Orla Guerin, ie rhetoric.

Spouting about misguided opinions and ignoring facts now Ralph? Or was my post to accurrate for your "I lived there" knowledge?

Rod there is no point in debating this subject with someone who believes that the Israelis are persuing a policy of genocide. As long as that is a cornerstone of your argument we will have nothing to discuss on this matter.

As I said in my previous post I feel that many of your opinions are misguided, however you wish to spin the statistics.

That is my opinion, perhaps we should just agree to disagree.

So that map was spinning? The quote from the Hansard was spinning? Denying access to medical supplies is spinning? The refusal to let a ship of humanitarian supplies through was spinning?

If you are going to defend a Government hell bent of erradicating a race from that race's home then at least have the guts to TRY and discuss it instead of trying the old "you're too extreme to argue with" ploy (only after the good old "Holocaust Denial" ploy). Try and change my argument, probably genocide was too strong, I can go with ethnic cleansing if it helps you. (of course you CAN'T defend that one).

Rod, take a deep breath and then reread my post where I asked Flushy "what next Holocaust denial ?" in response to his suggestion that it might have been better had the state of Israel not been created, as that would be the only way that the state of Israel would not have been created. I did not play "the Holocaust denial card".

If you are observant you will notice that Flushy's reply to my post started with "lol" meaning that he at least understood what that post was all about unlike others including yourself who pounced upon it eager to quote it out of context adding more spin to your burgeoning portfolio of staistics.

Gaza has just as great a border on the Egyptian side as it does with Israel. Are you now going to tell me that it is impossible to import humanitarian supplies from Egypt or are the Israelis somehow blockading that border too ?
And you're right there is a government hell-bent on eradicating a race, the Palestinian government.