Hi
I squeezed in long live £1/£2 session over the weekend (at gutshot, maybe that was where you were as well) and noticed a few things in particular which I consider mistakes / total nonsense, which even the better players were doing (and I do as well). These are more apparent in live games because you can hear people explain their awesome thought processes during / after hands.
One important thing to remember when thinking about live hand analysis is that probably half the table will be horrible horrible players so there is little point trying to analyse/critique their play because their thought process only makes sense to themselves or people with a similar mindset, just think about your play in relation to how you think they act.
Here are some:
Letting pot sizes get out of control with weak hands (and OOP) - So, in your example hand you said you wanted to keep the pot size small, yet you ended up playing for stacks. This is an issue. I would have check called that all the way. This would have cost you like £200 max rather than £400 or whatever, which obviously still isn't great, but I think in the long run this is a better play.
"I just wanted to take the pot down right there" & "Protecting my hand!" - Soooo many people say this and in my opinion it's just not the right way to think at all. You are either betting for value or you are bluffing.
Betting for information / Defining your hand - see above.
Not thinking ahead or having a plan - I saw often people having really huge dwell ups thinking about what to do (specifically in response to some one raising them) where from the previous action / pot size the player should have already had a plan about what to do. For instance, in hand 1 if you are betting that river, you just have to call that push, I'm glad you did call it, and hope you instacalled it. Hand 2, again I'm glad you pushed, because that must have plan after you checked the flop right? (on a side note I'd have just lead out that flop)
Betting too small in relation to the pot - I saw this happening way too often (obviously there are some times when it's good to bet like 1/4 of the pot or something). It's a bit tricky because the pots get so big since most people are such huge calling stations pre flop, but you just have to not be a pussy about it bet a decent size if you are going to bet at all.
Trying to get in on the action - You said "Been playing live cash the last couple of nights to disastrous effect. I lost a ton but im utterly astounded at how odd the play is". This bascailly translates to the players are horrible and you should be able to beat them but you didn't. This is a totally acceptable thing to think and it's almost certainly true. I also think it myself and it used to frustrate me when I lost significantly. One of the main reasons why I was losing was that I'd be watching all the insane action going down with people having showdowns for £1k+ pots with like bottom pair and I want to get involved myself, so I'd start calling like £30 preflop OOP with total rubbish garbage hands, and this is just a major leak, but it's hard to stop yourself. Just thought I'd mention this as something to think about in case you also do it.
That's quite a long post and it's supposed to be constructive, not critising.
Cliff notes: Hand 1 I would have check called all the way, as played call the raise. Hand2 shove.
I accept your constructive criticism's and to be honest im appalled at how i played the 1st hand. Im not that annoyed by my decisions per se but im annoyed with the speed with which i reacted to the table conditions. I used to play a lot live @ Luton and was a winning player, but havent played live cash for so long i'd forgotten a few key points. Internet cash game players are soooooooooooo much better that i find myself thinking on different wavelengths to my live opponents. Things like blocker betting the river, inducing the bluff, simple things that all onliners do well, live opp's are totally ignorant of. Iv highlighted a few points to let you know why i did what i did. I feel a bit like im defending my actions, but im only posting this to get other (better) players opinions and hopefully learn something new. Good discussion btw, nice to have different views on the same topic.
"Letting pot sizes get out of control with weak hands (and OOP) - So, in your example hand you said you wanted to keep the pot size small, yet you ended up playing for stacks. This is an issue. I would have check called that all the way. This would have cost you like £200 max rather than £400 or whatever, which obviously still isn't great, but I think in the long run this is a better play."
Sorry but i fundamentally disagree with you here. Calling poker is losing poker in my opinion. I like to be the aggressor most of the time and to use bets to get information. This is the style of poker i taught myself and (touch wood) im winning long-term. I do appreciate that my bet sizes in relation to the pot were not big enough, this wont occur again.
"Not thinking ahead or having a plan - I saw often people having really huge dwell ups thinking about what to do (specifically in response to some one raising them) where from the previous action / pot size the player should have already had a plan about what to do. For instance, in hand 1 if you are betting that river, you just have to call that push, I'm glad you did call it, and hope you instacalled it. Hand 2, again I'm glad you pushed, because that must have plan after you checked the flop right? (on a side note I'd have just lead out that flop)"
Hand 1, im betting the river to get full value from other aces and other made 2 pairs. Im not insta-calling as the information available to me has changed. Namely, he now wants to shove, there are no missed draws so what am i beating and what could he hold. You say you check call all the way. Its a side pot we are fighting for. Im trying to BUILD a side pot so i can win more money, im going to do this by betting. You plan of checking the flop, turn and then calling on the river when he makes his flush doesnt sound great, i guess you lose less, but you certainly win a lot less too.
Hand 2. Again, iv checked to let an idiot bet his 10 and get pot. After the action goes bet , raise, infront of me i have new information. Namely that player 2 has a hand with which he wants to see no further cards and shut down the action now. I understand this with 106 on a 10, 6, 2 board. What other card that comes on the turn gives you confidence (when you dont boat)? Which is why i like his play. "("I just wanted to take the pot down right there" & "Protecting my hand!" - Soooo many people say this and in my opinion it's just not the right way to think at all. You are either betting for value or you are bluffing." )"Dont particularly agree with you here either, holdem is a 5 card game. Fold equity is a tool to be embraced and letting people play catchup in multiway pots is dangerous.
ty for long response and always nice to have a good debate.
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