Tournament Hand of the Week: September 24th

[totalise]

All,

thanks for the laugh, this thread has it all!

Mantis,

Being more creative and manipulating what looks like a standard situation to trap your opponent is a more advanced level of poker theory.

I eagrely await your advanced theoretical analysis on how best to "trap" someone in this spot!

Keep up the good work people

[technolog]

Loving your work Mantis

LOVING

YOUR

WORK

Rubdown of the week anyone?

[Flea]

I think the river is going to be the case King and opponent has an ace, in which case Shiiiiip it as moneys going in.

Must admit if I was convinced I was ahead I would have checked the turn and feigned worry about the possible Flush (reason being I like to appear passive when I'm sure I'm ahead as it invokes more chance of people betting into you and if you then show strength it can help later on if you want to cheaply stay in a hand as people remember you playing a monster passively so are wary about bullying tactics).

[AndrewT]

Are all HOTW threads this much fun?

[MANTIS01]

Part III

Right, onwards with our Basic Hand of the Week.

On the flop my intention was to tell a story of weakness. A story I hoped my opponent would buy into. My body language and behaviour was strong even though the size of my bet could be considered weak and inconsistent with this behaviour. In an attempt to seal the deal I threw in a couple of bluff tells. I appreciate that if my opponent has an Ace the hand will play itself out but the motivation behind my efforts was to try a snag him even IF he doesn't have one. If he doesn't believe me he MAY call on the flop with atc's to try and wrestle the pot from me on the turn....something he could achieve with the smallest of bets. I have nothing to loose.

So if he has bought the story and thinks he's got me sussed I must offer him the consistency he's looking for on the turn...to confirm his suspicions that I am in fact weak. So what hand would I re-raise pre-flop with that wouldn't like this board? Maybe a pair of Jacks or Queens? I know that on this flop if I check with a pair like this I will ultimately be surrendering the pot...so I might take a stab at it. Hopefully, looking strong will scare my opponent away.

What would you do with Queens on the turn now that you have been called? It would difficult to fire another bullet off I think. You would probably check. This is consistent with his reading of the situation. So when the  falls this is actually a good card. It is true that we would find it difficult to put him on a flush but he would be thinking likewise. So the point is that our actions and this card provide him with an open invitation to represent either the Ace or the flush in spite of his actual holding.

Of course, he could very well have an Ace but I think that he would flat-call the flop bet here as well, especially if he thinks I am weak, because why would he want to scare me away? I am betting into him with an inferior hand and he is sitting pretty with position and feels in charge of the hand.

So I check

...he reaches for chips and I immediately reach for chips as well. This is a great tell for weakness I think because why would I want to stop him betting if I am strong?

He pauses...then disappointingly checks as well. Why would he check?

The River

The river is peeled of and it is....

 

We now have a board of

        

What are your thoughts about this card? What is your move now?

I check.

My opponent thinks motionless for a good while. The he announces "I'm all-in".

What on earth do we do now? That face card on the end was not a good one for us. I have just paid $1000 to enter and this is the very first hand and I still have 3,400 chips left. Can you make this call? If you do make the call what do you expect your opponent to hold and is it likely that you will now be beat? Is folding a far better alternative considering how far from the nuts we actually are now?

The reveal should come on Sunday...but then again if Snoopy's last effort was anything to go by it could be nearer Christmas...lol.

Once again thanks for all your comments..it's been a really entertaining one this time.

[boldie]

what on earth do you do now? You just put him on JJ or QQ..so going by that logic he ha a lower FH than you have..it's the easiest call in the world in that case.
Doing by your reasoning you should love that face card on the river as it 's the only card that he would move all his chips to the middle with.

If he has AA, AK, AQ and A5 you're beat. A5 is very unlikely.
With AA and AK you would have been beat on the flop already..and I'm thinking you would have stuck all your chips in the middle on this flop so that's just the way it is.

So the only hand you are now all of a sudden scared off is AQ. If he indeed has AQ you have just played this hand very poorly as you could gotten all his chips in the middle a lot earlier..then you could atleast have complained about him sucking out on you as you walk to the bar. If your chips go in the middle now (and by GOD they should) it's your own fault.

Unless you're Jennifer Tilly you can not fold a full house here. If you get done here that's fair enough but it's still a very easy call....especially since you think he has QQ.

[MANTIS01]

Posted by: boldie

what on earth do you do now? You just put him on JJ or QQ

especially since you think he has QQ.

I think you have mis-read the last part boldie. JJ or QQ are the hands I am hoping to represent myself...not the hands I particularly put my opponent on.

[boldie]

Posted by: boldie

what on earth do you do now? You just put him on JJ or QQ

especially since you think he has QQ.

I think you have mis-read the last part boldie. JJ or QQ are the hands I am hoping to represent myself...not the hands I particularly put my opponent on.

okeleydokeley..did mis-read that part, sorry mate.

Chippies still go in for me as I am not in the habit of folding a full house

[totalise]

given the way u played the turn and river, snap call

[TightEnd]

insta call, by checking the turn (which i would have done) I think you have to take anything thats coming and accept that the whole lots going in

I bet the river, wouldn't want to risk a check behind

[bone1986]

 I think Tighty is right I would also have bet out on the river, but once we check it can only be to induce some kind of bluff steal or allow our opponent to make a value bet with a lesser holding.

I've got to make the call, we played the hand to get all his chips in the middle and thats just whats happened so we may not like it but it's all going in.

[totalise]

I dont really like betting the river after checking the turn, its such an obvious line that if the opponent is a semi thinking player he can dump a lot of hands to a bet that might well valuebet the river if we check..ie:

you bet flop hoping to get raised, check the turn hoping to slide in the c/r or snap off a bluff, and when you get to the river you are thinknig "oh noes, only one more chance to bet, might as well shovel it in!" and given that you got called on the flop, and the draw got there on the turn, I'd just bet the turn and expect to get it in, because hes never gonna try and bluff here, and most liekly isn't gonna have a hand that needs to bluff

Obviously sometimes its going to go check/check on the river and he will showdown a hand that maybe might have called a river bet, but one of the meta-game benefits of having this shown down is that you wont have to fear being taken off marginal hands as much OOP because people could suspect you of trapping, so you can play out of position with a bit more confidence, and the value of this is pretty high later on when the blinds--->stack ratio shallows (as long as your table aint gonna break any time soon!)

so tl;dr, checking the turn imo was the big mistake in the hand

[TheChipPrince]

I'm never ever folding here, but why are we not value betting the river? OK, he pushed all-in which i'm presuming were pleased with, but I defeinetly bet 40% of the pot on the river hoping to get called by a medium pair or a weak A...

[ifm]

I'm surprised that folks on here seem to not only applaud Mantis's nasty and childish comments to Dubai but actually encourage them.
As was alluded to the board is for all to voice their opinions theoretically without being the subject of ridicule, actually i think it's in the board rules.
It has always been a bit of a "thing" for me when people are criticised for poor spelling or grammar, i find it incredibly rude.

As for the hand, reraise pre, CB flop if there is any sign that oppo likes his hand shove the turn because you are not going to get chips off anyone without an ace unless he's a complete idiot and if he has one then the chips are going in anyway.

[MANTIS01]

Posted by: ifm                            Posted on: Today at 10:03:16 am

I'm surprised that folks on here seem to not only applaud Mantis's nasty and childish comments to Dubai but actually encourage them.
As was alluded to the board is for all to voice their opinions theoretically without being the subject of ridicule, actually i think it's in the board rules.
It has always been a bit of a "thing" for me when people are criticised for poor spelling or grammar, i find it incredibly rude.

I am a little confused by your opinion ifm.

The fact that a member enters a debate and labels the content therein..."incoherent spew" is "nasty", "childish" and is an attempt to "ridicule" genuine comment. These are the things that you suggest are a bit of a "thing" for you. So please don't be surprised to find that they are a bit of a "thing" for me too. It would be a little hypocritical if you were. The fact that some people applaud my comment is because they feel the same way as me....and the same way as you??