Trying cash again: NL100 KK hand

[Longy]

Im trying my hand at cash as break from sng's plus obv if i can turn myself into a good cash player there is more money in it. The table has recently got shorthanded and i have stuck around as both players are weak.

Im running at 23/18 through the session and have upped the aggression since we went 3 handed opponent a couple of orbits ago limp raised the button after i raised from sb. He almost certain sees me as an over aggro bully, he has had his big stack since i sat. He is weak passive running 30/8/1.2 over 70 hands.

** Game ID 838302845 starting - 2007-09-27 18:44:34
** Adler [Hold 'em] (0.50|1.00 No Limit - Cash Game) Real Money

- L3arn3r sitting in seat 2 with $389.02 [Dealer]
- Longy1 sitting in seat 4 with $97.64
- ggg1234 sitting in seat 5 with $115.02

Longy1 posted the small blind - $0.50
ggg1234 posted the big blind - $1.00
** Dealing card to Longy1: King of Clubs, King of Hearts
L3arn3r called - $1.00
Longy1 raised - $4.50
ggg1234 folded
L3arn3r called - $4.50

** Dealing the flop: 6 of Spades, Queen of Spades, Jack of Clubs
Longy1 bet - $7.00
L3arn3r raised - $15.50
Longy1 raised - $45.00
L3arn3r called - $45.00

** Dealing the turn: Queen of Hearts
Longy1 checked
L3arn3r bet - $50.00
Longy1 ??

Like the line so far, call this river?

[Flea]

Tough one, I'm not very good at cash but as a passive player against someone I see as being a bit of a bully in this situation I might figure you for having nothing and try to get you all-in even if I only held a Jack - having said that it doesn't mean opponent hasn't got a queen or a flush draw.

Given that opponent does have a big stack even though he's "weak" he must still know how to play in order to have this sort of stack so he may be playing a flush draw strongly as with trip queens I think he'd have checked the turn and tried to get the money in on the river, but he's taken away your fold equity by putting you all in and you don't really know where you are in the hand so I'd probably fold and accept I may have just been out-played.

[boldie]

the sort of hand above is the reason I don't play cash as I do my stack in here and call...and then I curse myself and feel sorry for my KK getting outdrawn again.

[TightEnd]

bet-raise then re-raise on flop?

how about not 3 betting and trying to get to river cheaply?

this line with hands where its easy to stack off vs a set is ok against unknown opp.

[jakally]

I think you're beat here more often than not............but you are getting 3 to 1 on the call.

The problem you have is that there is not much you are beating.

It's the kind of situation that I would call if the oppo. has proved capable of making moves previously.

[AndrewT]

If I've worked out the bets properly (not as straightforward as it could be with this HH layout) you only have $24 left. With your re-raise on the flop, you're committing yourself to the hand.

You have to call.

[temp0r]

when you re-raise the flop the way you have you're basically saying 'i don't care what comes on the turn if he flat calls i'm stacking off here'
i put it in. watch him turn over Q6 and reload.

[doubleup]

If you've been playing a bit laggy, it's usually a mistake to think that passive players are lowering their standards as they generally don't.  That being said I think you've probably got a bit unlucky here but it's a fold for me.

[Longy]

If I've worked out the bets properly (not as straightforward as it could be with this HH layout) you only have $24 left. With your re-raise on the flop, you're committing yourself to the hand.

You have to call.

I have about $50 back, the action on the flop means i have made it $45 total on the flop with the 3-bet. I agree the laddies hh aren't the easiest on the eye. I might look into cleaning them up if i post another one.

[bhoywonder]

Your not quite committed

but ur getting good odds

if he has it,fair enough..a little agressive from him on the turn,maybe to lull you in cos he knows you are strong

but im afraid im calling and i dont really know if we are winning here

thats cash for you...love it or hate it

[Longy]

Well my thoughts on the hand was that his flop raise could be alot of hands and as the board is quite wet that protecting my hand with a view to shoving a blank turn. Though tight end makes a good point about pot control and this seems like a good alternative line.

I hated the turn and actually checked out of disgust. He fired the $50 in quite quickly and my first instinct was to fold, but after looking at the pot size, our history and the fact that his range is still reasonably wide (draws, the bare jack and a ridonkulous bluff). I made a crying call.

The river blanked out and the pot was shipped to me. I would love to tell you what he had but laddies doesn't show hands in these situation and mucks them. Which i think is wrong as have called his bet and therefore should be able to see his hand.

[boldie]

Which i think is wrong as have called his bet and therefore should be able to see his hand.

indeed..that is quite frankly shocking.

[doubleup]

Which i think is wrong as have called his bet and therefore should be able to see his hand.

indeed..that is quite frankly shocking.

lol if i known it was ladbrokes i wld have said "instacall"..

oddly I think that not showing the cards is a good thing, bad players don't see when they've been lucky but only when they've been "unlucky", so this gives them a false impression of their game i.e. they can make excuses when they lose.

     

[boldie]

Which i think is wrong as have called his bet and therefore should be able to see his hand.

indeed..that is quite frankly shocking.

lol if i known it was ladbrokes i wld have said "instacall"..

oddly I think that not showing the cards is a good thing, bad players don't see when they've been lucky but only when they've been "unlucky", so this gives them a false impression of their game i.e. they can make excuses when they lose.

     

really?...I think I should get to see the cards that humped me when I pay for the privilige ...and I soo often do

[doubleup]

Which i think is wrong as have called his bet and therefore should be able to see his hand.

indeed..that is quite frankly shocking.

lol if i known it was ladbrokes i wld have said "instacall"..

oddly I think that not showing the cards is a good thing, bad players don't see when they've been lucky but only when they've been "unlucky", so this gives them a false impression of their game i.e. they can make excuses when they lose.

     

really?...I think I should get to see the cards that humped me when I pay for the privilige ...and I soo often do

You do get to see the winning cards just not losing cards.  So if someone hits a 2 outer on the river after going AI on the turn, they don't see your cards and don't know how lucky they got.  Human nature being what it is, they delude themselves that they were ahead anyway.