money taken from my account by Will Hill

[thediceman]

Not aware that I did say it's their job to make you read the t&c's so not quite sure what your point is.

The shame is that customer services so often couldn't careless about helping or even assisting their customers.

[tikay]

I am just a little player in the scheme of things but "let the buyer beware" is in my opinion not the way for a big corporaton to deal with things. I know we all get shafted at times but there has to be some honour surely.

My point was, the Terms & Conditions are there for us to read. If we don't read them, we can't complain after the event.

even if they are written using teeny weeny letters, go on for many pages and even if you do get out a magnifying glass and read them you wouldn't actually be able to understand anything unless you are some kind of corporate lawyer? 

Well no, I don't think that applies.

If someone (an Online Site) "nicks" say, $1,000 from my Account, I'm gonna be a bit miffed, & I'm gonna want it back.

So what is my first course of action?

1) Check the Terms & Conditions, to see if they are entitled so to do, then.....

2) See what means of redress I have.

In the Wm Hill case, I'd then have found the IBAS Link, & gone through their procedure.

I'm not suggesting for a moment I'd have read all the small print in advance. But once I've got a grievance, I'm not gonna go rushing in spouting off - I'm gonna lay my plans carefully, & go about it the right way.

Do I trust Wm Hill? Personally, yes, of course I do. (Why on earth would they sully their reputation for a small - to them - amount?). But if I don't, I have the IBAS route at my disposal.

Now, according to this thread, IBAS are not independent. But they ARE, & we can't have it both ways.

[ifm]

My point is it's a shame that the customer service is so often pish that the individual has to look for any help.

why is that a shame?  its not their job to ensure that you actually do read the terms and conditions when you click a box that says you read and agree to the terms and conditions

I dont think he was referring to the terms and conditions, btw i've never heard of ibas either.

If i'd known when betfair ripped me off.........

[bolt pp]

I am just a little player in the scheme of things but "let the buyer beware" is in my opinion not the way for a big corporaton to deal with things. I know we all get shafted at times but there has to be some honour surely.

My point was, the Terms & Conditions are there for us to read. If we don't read them, we can't complain after the event.

Exactly

[bolt pp]

My point is it's a shame that the customer service is so often pish that the individual has to look for any help.

why is that a shame?  its not their job to ensure that you actually do read the terms and conditions when you click a box that says you read and agree to the terms and conditions

 

[tikay]

Not aware that I did say it's their job to make you read the t&c's so not quite sure what your point is.

The shame is that customer services so often couldn't careless about helping or even assisting their customers.

Well that's only a shame for THEM.

Because, as sure as God made little apples, if someone demonstrates poor Customer Service, I simply up sticks & go elsewhere.

I play on blonde, Blue Square, Laddies, & Stars, because, amongst other things, they give me good Customer Service.

As it happens, I don't play much on Crypto, for numerous reasons, but I've not heard many complaints about poor Customer Service by Wm Hill or DTD.

[totalise]

My point is it's a shame that the customer service is so often pish that the individual has to look for any help.

why is that a shame?  its not their job to ensure that you actually do read the terms and conditions when you click a box that says you read and agree to the terms and conditions

I dont think he was referring to the terms and conditions, btw i've never heard of ibas either.

If i'd known when betfair ripped me off.........

I heard of IBAS when i spent 1 min reading the T&C of a pokersite before i signed up.. also if you got ripped off by betfair, the time period is quite generous so you could still have a case.

I dont really know what his point is then, is his point that customer service sometimes sucks? if so, I agree, but its hardly earth shattering news. Should the customer service people be responsible for telling you of IBAS and that stuff? of course not, its not their job.

[tikay]

My point is it's a shame that the customer service is so often pish that the individual has to look for any help.

why is that a shame?  its not their job to ensure that you actually do read the terms and conditions when you click a box that says you read and agree to the terms and conditions

I dont think he was referring to the terms and conditions, btw i've never heard of ibas either.

If i'd known when betfair ripped me off.........

Betfair say THIS quite clearly under Terms & Conditons. It took me one click to find it. And I'm not Internet savvy, as you know!

If you feel that your complaint was not satisfactorily resolved by us you should make a complaint to IBAS in the UK

Give them a try, you have nothing to lose!

[tikay]

My point is it's a shame that the customer service is so often pish that the individual has to look for any help.

why is that a shame?  its not their job to ensure that you actually do read the terms and conditions when you click a box that says you read and agree to the terms and conditions

I dont think he was referring to the terms and conditions, btw i've never heard of ibas either.

If i'd known when betfair ripped me off.........

Betfair say THIS quite clearly under Terms & Conditons. It took me one click to find it. And I'm not Internet savvy, as you know!

If you feel that your complaint was not satisfactorily resolved by us you should make a complaint to IBAS in the UK

Give them a try, you have nothing to lose!

In fact, to dispel the "Corporate Mumbu-Jumbo" myth, here's the ENTIRE page on Betfair Complaints Procedure. It cant be laid out clearer, in more concise language, or more simple, surely?

How To Make A Complaint

If you have a complaint about any part of our product or service, please e-mail Betfair directly. We will attempt to answer all e-mails within 4 hours during Helpdesk hours. If you are an existing Betfair account holder please include your username in all correspondence.

 
Helpdesk and Telephone Betting are manned 24/7 by English speaking Betfair brokers and Helpdesk staff and 3pm to 5am (Beijing time), 7 days-a-week by Mandarin / Cantonese speaking staff.

 
If you feel that your complaint was not satisfactorily resolved by us you should make a complaint to IBAS in the UK or to The Tasmanian Gaming Commission in Australia.
 

[thediceman]

Not aware that I did say it's their job to make you read the t&c's so not quite sure what your point is.

The shame is that customer services so often couldn't careless about helping or even assisting their customers.

Well that's only a shame for THEM.

Because, as sure as God made little apples, if someone demonstrates poor Customer Service, I simply up sticks & go elsewhere.

I play on blonde, Blue Square, Laddies, & Stars, because, amongst other things, they give me good Customer Service.

As it happens, I don't play much on Crypto, for numerous reasons, but I've not heard many complaints about poor Customer Service by Wm Hill or dtd.

And must companies will focus their budgets on attracting new customers rather than looking after the existing ones as longterm what's it matter if they provide bad service and lose a few customers. I also guess customer apathy is their friend.

Just because someone can leave it's no reason for a company not to provide good customer service.

[tikay]

Not aware that I did say it's their job to make you read the t&c's so not quite sure what your point is.

The shame is that customer services so often couldn't careless about helping or even assisting their customers.

Well that's only a shame for THEM.

Because, as sure as God made little apples, if someone demonstrates poor Customer Service, I simply up sticks & go elsewhere.

I play on blonde, Blue Square, Laddies, & Stars, because, amongst other things, they give me good Customer Service.

As it happens, I don't play much on Crypto, for numerous reasons, but I've not heard many complaints about poor Customer Service by Wm Hill or dtd.

And must companies will focus their budgets on attracting new customers rather than looking after the existing ones as longterm what's it matter if they provide bad service and lose a few customers. I also guess customer apathy is their friend.

Just because someone can leave it's no reason for a company not to provide good customer service.

Well we just look at that from directly opposing viewpoints. The whole point of good Customer Service (imo) is to retain Clients. 'Stars are living proof of that, as are Laddies, blonde, Blue Square, & as far as I am aware, most "big-name" Sites, the only exception I know being Party. Don't go THERE, then you would have reason to complain!

[thediceman]

Should the customer service people be responsible for telling you of IBAS and that stuff? of course not, its not their job.

Other organisations do. Anglian Water give you details of OFWAT. Financial companies give you the FSA details if you register a complaint with them. So why shouldn't individuals be made aware of the IBAS option. Indeed an individual can find the information themselves but if an organisation is customer friendly they will give you options or at least try to deal with it themselves.

The oh so often silent, ignore the complaint procedure is not a very helpful one and why shouldn't they give out IBAS details if someone writes or phones to complain. IBAS are an independant body that are there to help resolve issues which is surely good for whatever company involved..........thats unless they think the silent ignore it approach will be more benefical in the long run.

[totalise]

Should the customer service people be responsible for telling you of IBAS and that stuff? of course not, its not their job.

Other organisations do. Anglian Water give you details of OFWAT. Financial companies give you the FSA details if you register a complaint with them. So why shouldn't individuals be made aware of the IBAS option. Indeed an individual can find the information themselves but if an organisation is customer friendly they will give you options or at least try to deal with it themselves.

The oh so often silent, ignore the complaint procedure is not a very helpful one and why shouldn't they give out IBAS details if someone writes or phones to complain. IBAS are an independant body that are there to help resolve issues which is surely good for whatever company involved..........thats unless they think the silent ignore it approach will be more benefical in the long run.

you are mixing up companies with customer services, of course companies can (and have to)  advise you on this, but the customer services cant. With the FSA/financial companies you need qualifications before you can give any advice at all on someones account, I know this because it was my first job, working for a marketmaker in london, so when u call up and have a grievance, the CS reps cant tell you your options/give you advice on what to do with your account when a dispute arises , they have to refer you to compliance, who will then run you through your options.

[thediceman]

Well we just look at that from directly opposing viewpoints. The whole point of good Customer Service (imo) is to retain Clients. 'Stars are living proof of that, as are Laddies, blonde, Blue Square, & as far as I am aware, most "big-name" Sites, the only exception I know being Party. Don't go THERE, then you would have reason to complain!

In no way is my viewpoint different as I fully believe the aim of customer service should be to provide a good service and retain their clients. What I sadly find is that many companies are all to keen to invest heavily in it's marketing for new clients at the cost of providing a good customer service department. Many companies make a decision of why worry about losing a few due to poor customer service when we are attracting so many more from our marketing.

[Dingdell]

Not aware that I did say it's their job to make you read the t&c's so not quite sure what your point is.

The shame is that customer services so often couldn't careless about helping or even assisting their customers.

Well that's only a shame for THEM.

Because, as sure as God made little apples, if someone demonstrates poor Customer Service, I simply up sticks & go elsewhere.

I play on blonde, Blue Square, Laddies, & Stars, because, amongst other things, they give me good Customer Service.

As it happens, I don't play much on Crypto, for numerous reasons, but I've not heard many complaints about poor Customer Service by Wm Hill or dtd.

And must companies will focus their budgets on attracting new customers rather than looking after the existing ones as longterm what's it matter if they provide bad service and lose a few customers. I also guess customer apathy is their friend.
Just because someone can leave it's no reason for a company not to provide good customer service.

Not true - its much much cheaper to retain a customer than get a new one - basic economics. For every £1 spent on retaining customers you save five times the amount you would need to spend on getting new customers in. Existing customers already have accepted brand, have experienced the product and are still buying, are are more likely to buy again from the same source.

If you look at any of the major retailers in the UK - tescos for example - their advertising is designed to keep the existing shopper happy not to get new ones. They accept that people will be loyal to their favourite shop like sainbury's, so they spend lots of money instore keeping existing customers - for example on computers for schools and reward points.