to push or wait

[Longy]

urgh. i'd rather push  than  here if it helps.

me too but would you rather push with A4o utg or call with 93 in LP

call with 93 against serial raisers who are givin me value by pushing out the blunds thereby making sure I get 2.5 times the amount of chips I have now.

Ugh im sure this is massively flawed logic and if I can be bothered at some point, I might try and prove it mathematically. I mean wow I can't believe for one minute this is sensible.

I probably been sucked in here by some big in-joke, right?

[boldie]

urgh. i'd rather push  than  here if it helps.

me too but would you rather push with A4o utg or call with 93 in LP

call with 93 against serial raisers who are givin me value by pushing out the blunds thereby making sure I get 2.5 times the amount of chips I have now.

Ugh im sure this is massively flawed logic and if I can be bothered at some point, I might try and prove it mathematically. I mean wow I can't believe for one minute this is sensible.

I probably been sucked in here by some big in-joke, right?

yeah...though not an in-joke..unless it' a reference to some mug on Blonde who once won a hand with 93 suited.

Sorry Longy with 67 suited against a lag raiser when I'm this low I call though but not with 9-3 and all that I do however think it's just about criminal to get yourself into 5BB territory unless you have taken a massive hit and can't keep stressing that enough.

[Longy]

urgh. i'd rather push  than  here if it helps.

me too but would you rather push with A4o utg or call with 93 in LP

call with 93 against serial raisers who are givin me value by pushing out the blunds thereby making sure I get 2.5 times the amount of chips I have now.

Ugh im sure this is massively flawed logic and if I can be bothered at some point, I might try and prove it mathematically. I mean wow I can't believe for one minute this is sensible.

I probably been sucked in here by some big in-joke, right?

yeah...though not an in-joke..unless it' a reference to some mug on Blonde who once won a hand with 93 suited.

Sorry Longy with 67 suited against a lag raiser when I'm this low I call though but not with 9-3 and all that I do however think it's just about criminal to get yourself into 5BB territory unless you have taken a massive hit and can't keep stressing that enough.

Oh i agree with you about the 2nd point, we really should be doing our hardest to stop ourselves getting this short in an mtt (sng's are different because of payout structure), but i think calling off our chips with low cards seems like madness compared to shoving a wide range, whenever we get the opportunity.

[boldie]

urgh. i'd rather push  than  here if it helps.

me too but would you rather push with A4o utg or call with 93 in LP

call with 93 against serial raisers who are givin me value by pushing out the blunds thereby making sure I get 2.5 times the amount of chips I have now.

Ugh im sure this is massively flawed logic and if I can be bothered at some point, I might try and prove it mathematically. I mean wow I can't believe for one minute this is sensible.

I probably been sucked in here by some big in-joke, right?

yeah...though not an in-joke..unless it' a reference to some mug on Blonde who once won a hand with 93 suited.

Sorry Longy with 67 suited against a lag raiser when I'm this low I call though but not with 9-3 and all that I do however think it's just about criminal to get yourself into 5BB territory unless you have taken a massive hit and can't keep stressing that enough.

Oh i agree with you about the 2nd point, we really should be doing our hardest to stop ourselves getting this short in an mtt (sng's are different because of payout structure), but i think calling off our chips with low cards seems like madness compared to shoving a wide range, whenever we get the opportunity.

yeah I think we essentially agree on everything.

I would be interested to hear peoples range on hands they CALL with in late position when faced with serial raisers on a 7 handed table and they find themselves with 5-6BB's.

[TheChipPrince]

Its 1 of 2 choices for me, either push with A2 here, or call with ANY the next hand, I push...

The average stack is 32K, if you let the blinds pass, u need to double just to get back to the exact situation your in now, in fact, its an easy push for me...

[temp0r]

pushing with weak aces from early position in mtts. LOL.

learn math.

[TheChipPrince]

You have 6 players to get past and less than 5 big blinds...

[temp0r]

it's not that which is my concern. its that you're all acting like a weak ace is a good hand to push with when math wise its the worst to push with!

[Longy]

pushing with weak aces from early position in mtts. LOL.

learn math.

O rly, I have just stuck it an ICM simulator for sng's and it comes out to about neutral equity given a range for calling as A7+ 44+ KJ+. This doesn't take into affect the blinds coming round next which you can always add on about +.2% of the prize pool for there effect.

You should always be pushing wider in MTT's as the prize pool dictates so surviving has less equity reward in comparison to sng format.

Maybe i should learn math(s) tho.

[temp0r]

i'm aware of the equations the ICM calc uses. i have used it myself for SnGs ect. and can do them in my head cause i'm a snotty arrogant student.
however, you need to consider the calling range of your opponents a little more. basically. if you get called you're dominated a huge % of the time when you shove with a rag ace. whereas if you shove with sooted rags you're actually alot better off against the hands you're likely to get called with.

my point is. if you shove A4o here. you shove ANY TWO CARDS here. ke?

[boldie]

basically. if you get called you're dominated a huge % of the time when you shove with a rag ace. whereas if you shove with sooted rags you're actually alot better off against the hands you're likely to get called with.

yep, spot on.

[totalise]

basically. if you get called you're dominated a huge % of the time when you shove with a rag ace. whereas if you shove with sooted rags you're actually alot better off against the hands you're likely to get called with.

yep, spot on.

yes, but having an ace in your hand reduces the A/x combinations that call you, so the frequency with which they call you is a fair bit lower, which obviously increases the chances of you winning the pot without showdown.

[LuckyLloyd]

basically. if you get called you're dominated a huge % of the time when you shove with a rag ace. whereas if you shove with sooted rags you're actually alot better off against the hands you're likely to get called with.

yep, spot on.

smkgjkhjgsjgsfjgfjgfjgg

MY GOD YOU GUYS ARE SOOOO WRONG.

Do some pokerstove experiments. Stick 43s in against a range of 77+ // A8o+ // A6s+ // KJs+.

Now do the same, this time running A4 against that range. Be intrigued at what you find.

Additionally, consider that when you shove 5BBs from UTG you actually get a fold out of some of the above range. Particularly the weaker Aces // the Kings // the lower pairs. Whether people should or shouldn't fold in such situations is irrelevant. They do.

Now, think about the fact that you are at a seven handed table; not ten; and there is a diminished possibillity that anyone picks up one of the above hands in an individual orbit of the table.

FINALLY: think about what happens the next two hands where you may have to get it all in with two random cards and NO fold equity. Or openshove 3.5 BBs the next orbit of the table if you let the blinds pass through.

Maths? Don't bang on about something like it's fact until YOU DO THE FUCKING MATHS.

This is a shove. And it really, really isn't close at all.

[boldie]

it's fair enough that you want to push here..Like I said previously..unless I lose a big part of my stack the hand before I won't be in this situation as I will have pushed earlier.

What range would you call all-in with though in late position against a serial raiser when you have 5bb's left?

[Ironside]

getting into the 5bb's was a case of not getting called when pushing and not getting the chance to push more often

i would much rather steal a round of blinds each round waiting to hopefully get a double up rather than call off my TOURNY with 93o or 84

once your out there is no comeback

as for choosing which hand to push with your options are UTG with A4 or letting the blinds pass you didnt get the option to change your cars to 67s allthough i will suggest that to yogi as a new game for the future