Vagueness and the Aftermath - A sporadic diary

[tikay]

Portcullis House, the building where I did my speakering.

Click to see full-size image.

Not sure if you were aware of the history of that building, Tom.

It has no interior columns, & sits above a Tube Station. Very odd design. As you'd expect for top side of £250 million.

Have a gander.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portcullis_House

[tikay]

Lovely as I find many of the tales and lore, Red's is a singular and in many ways romanticised perspective.

It is hard for non Gypsies (I cant remember what word Gypsies have for us) to differentiate a Red-Dog type Gypsy - good or bad - versus many other types of travelling communities -  a number of these communities are not particularly nice or desirable and I'm reasonably happy to say that, whilst I might respect their rights and freedoms to an extent, generally, I would rather they didn't park up opposite my house.

We have been trying for years to persuade the government to stop lumping everyone who lives in a caravan together under the "Gypsy" umbrella.


Here are some notes from a speech I gave to Ministers in London recently. (On the day of the student riots, lol)

Please ignore the spelling and grammatical mistakes, this is a rough draft, not the finished article. (I managed to lose that somewhere in cyberspace)



Equalities and Human Rights

Tom McCready from the Derbyshire Gypsy Liaison group, DGLG is host agency to National Federation of Gypsy Liaison Groups.

Equality does not just mean treating everyone in the same manner, because to do so would assume that we all are equal to start with.

1.   The Romany Gypsy and traditional Traveller people do not all start on an equal footing to the wider community, and that was one of the reasons that the last government introduced the 1/06 Guidelines on Gypsy and Traveller sites. For Gypsy people, there was a lack of culturally suitable accommodation.

2.   However, consultation for the guidelines missed an important opportunity to update and abolish the case law that brought about the notion that you can be too old or too ill to be a Gypsy [ Berry Case] The definition of a gypsy within the 1/06 guidelines does not deal with this case law. It fudged over the issues, and ultimately it has brought us right back to where we were before.

3.   Without good guidelines, we have nothing with which to argue against bad case law. We should make sure that any  definition should be referenced to ethnicity in order to improve that equality line, and to bring the Gypsy people to the same level of provision as housed families, it should acknowledge our way of life as a cultural right, as opposed to choice


4.   Derbyshire Gypsy Liaison Group undertakes accommodation and planning application support, and we found that the 1/06 guidelines were actually working. There was an increase in the number of planning permission application approvals (all be it that many of these were temporary).


5.   My way of life, that of my parents and those before them goes back nearly 600 years in this country; it was not mine by choice. It was my birthright. Never the less. I would not choose a different way of life.
 
6.   Today, we find ourselves bogged down in political correctness and Homelessness law, and, although it has sometimes been our saviour. It is not the only area of law that we should be looking at.



7.   Our problem is not the same as that of homeless young people who dip their toes into our way of life and then find it very difficult to get back into the bricks and mortar housing that they originally left by choice.  Because these youngsters choose to leave, they are then intentionally homeless within law.
 
8.   It is nonsensical to then after a few years re-name and re-package these intentionally homeless people as ‘travellers’ and, at the same time refuse to give planning permission to genuine Gypsy traveller people because they have lost their Gypsy status due to a few years in housing or the fact that they have been on a local authority site for a while.   It is the big G little g scenario.

9.   EU law states that Britain should facilitate the Gypsy way of life. It does not speak of lower case g and it does not indicate who is or who is not lower case g. It does not discuss or make that distinction. It says ‘Britain should facilitate the Gypsy way of life’ and it meant ethnic Gypsies. [ this also applies in law now to both the Scots and the Irish]

10.   You may think that this is an “I only love my own race” presentation; well it is not. I put forward these facts, and I will put forward the balancing argument. There is a rural community that have lived in villages up and down the land for generations. Some of those families have never known any other way of life. Their lifestyle is not one of choice; it is the one they inherited, but given the option, they would choose to remain in the village that their father, grandfather and great grandfather farmed, lived and died in.  The Gypsy community identify with family heritage. These young families cannot afford to live in their villages unless there is subsidised social housing. We can understand their anger when this lifestyle is seen as one of choice and not one of birthright.  We, as Gypsies, are talking small numbers here. There are not millions of us.   

11.   This is a part of the social cohesion agenda. Understanding fully, and trying to balance the rights.


12.   Our way of life is a cultural right and as with all rights it has to be balanced with the rights of others.  That can be, and often is difficult. We need to be cautious, as prescriptive law can sometimes bring more problems and this could be a disaster. However, we do think that there is a need to re visit this issue of definition.


13.   The community are worried about what may happen in the future with regard to 1/06. We understand that the Secretary of State wishes to replace it with a policy. What is to be in that policy and with whom is the Secretary of State going to consult in regard to that policy?

14.   We sincerely hope that the National Federation of Gypsy Liaison Groups will be consulted on this, as we are the only group that has a representative from every region in England and include two groups from Wales.  Remember, there are some hard working groups across the country as a whole, not just in London.

15.   We would hope that a Race Equality Impact Assessment has been carried out before these guidelines are withdrawn. There are still many unequal facets of Gypsy life, especially for the disabled and the elderly.   Most of the Gypsy and Traveller groups would prefer to work on those issues rather than debate accommodation yet again, there is still a lot of work to be done on equality issues.

I'm just in awe at that, Tom, for all the wrong reasons.

I assume you knew most of the facts, but needed to bone up on specific details.

How long did that take to put together?

Did you deliver it in written form, as well as "prompts" presumably for a speech?

How was it received?

Were you nervous?

Only you will know I mean this the right way, but do you ever reflect upon your speaking, writing, & grammatical skills, "all things considered", as I doubt you had a conventional education? I seem to recall when blonde Forum began, you were not as literate as you'd like to be. What a wonderul &, presumably, self-taught thing.

How good a decision was giving up "Full-Time" poker? Fantastic, or fantastic?

Do you ever regret giving up full-time poker?

I know you do not much love the Admin side of your work, but that job is like letting a kid loose in a sweet factory, is it not?

I really hope you stick at it for ever.

[typhoon13]

Hi Tom

Red dog film from Lincoln are giving away free birds nest boxes.

Just setting off to pick a couple up.

[RED-DOG]

Portcullis House, the building where I did my speakering.

Click to see full-size image.

Not sure if you were aware of the history of that building, Tom.

It has no interior columns, & sits above a Tube Station. Very odd design. As you'd expect for top side of £250 million.

Have a gander.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portcullis_House

Very interesting. Thank you.

I will answer your questions when I have time. Meanwhile, I will mull.

BTW- Did you get a chance to look at those Brian Blessed clips I sent you?

[RED-DOG]

Hi Tom

Red dog film from Lincoln are giving away free birds nest boxes.

Just setting off to pick a couple up.

Red dog film? What the blazes are you on about Trev?

[tikay]

Portcullis House, the building where I did my speakering.

Click to see full-size image.

Not sure if you were aware of the history of that building, Tom.

It has no interior columns, & sits above a Tube Station. Very odd design. As you'd expect for top side of £250 million.

Have a gander.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portcullis_House

Very interesting. Thank you.

I will answer your questions when I have time. Meanwhile, I will mull.

BTW- Did you get a chance to look at those Brian Blessed clips I sent you?

Yes Tom, I did, sorry I never replied properly. For whatever reason, I cannot seem to see You Tube Vids on my 'phone. Not so smart after all. I blame Maria.

Do you really now have a phone on which you can send Texts by voice command? Say it ain't so. (If I receive a text which says "it ain't so", point made).

Enjoy the mull, & you don't have to answer the questions if they are uncomfy. It's so out of fashion, mulling, but I enjoy a mull, I solve a lot of problems by mulling. We can mull in silence, too.

[RED-DOG]

Lovely as I find many of the tales and lore, Red's is a singular and in many ways romanticised perspective.

It is hard for non Gypsies (I cant remember what word Gypsies have for us) to differentiate a Red-Dog type Gypsy - good or bad - versus many other types of travelling communities -  a number of these communities are not particularly nice or desirable and I'm reasonably happy to say that, whilst I might respect their rights and freedoms to an extent, generally, I would rather they didn't park up opposite my house.

We have been trying for years to persuade the government to stop lumping everyone who lives in a caravan together under the "Gypsy" umbrella.


Here are some notes from a speech I gave to Ministers in London recently. (On the day of the student riots, lol)

Please ignore the spelling and grammatical mistakes, this is a rough draft, not the finished article. (I managed to lose that somewhere in cyberspace)



Equalities and Human Rights

Tom McCready from the Derbyshire Gypsy Liaison group, DGLG is host agency to National Federation of Gypsy Liaison Groups.

Equality does not just mean treating everyone in the same manner, because to do so would assume that we all are equal to start with.

1.   The Romany Gypsy and traditional Traveller people do not all start on an equal footing to the wider community, and that was one of the reasons that the last government introduced the 1/06 Guidelines on Gypsy and Traveller sites. For Gypsy people, there was a lack of culturally suitable accommodation.

2.   However, consultation for the guidelines missed an important opportunity to update and abolish the case law that brought about the notion that you can be too old or too ill to be a Gypsy [ Berry Case] The definition of a gypsy within the 1/06 guidelines does not deal with this case law. It fudged over the issues, and ultimately it has brought us right back to where we were before.

3.   Without good guidelines, we have nothing with which to argue against bad case law. We should make sure that any  definition should be referenced to ethnicity in order to improve that equality line, and to bring the Gypsy people to the same level of provision as housed families, it should acknowledge our way of life as a cultural right, as opposed to choice


4.   Derbyshire Gypsy Liaison Group undertakes accommodation and planning application support, and we found that the 1/06 guidelines were actually working. There was an increase in the number of planning permission application approvals (all be it that many of these were temporary).


5.   My way of life, that of my parents and those before them goes back nearly 600 years in this country; it was not mine by choice. It was my birthright. Never the less. I would not choose a different way of life.
 
6.   Today, we find ourselves bogged down in political correctness and Homelessness law, and, although it has sometimes been our saviour. It is not the only area of law that we should be looking at.



7.   Our problem is not the same as that of homeless young people who dip their toes into our way of life and then find it very difficult to get back into the bricks and mortar housing that they originally left by choice.  Because these youngsters choose to leave, they are then intentionally homeless within law.
 
8.   It is nonsensical to then after a few years re-name and re-package these intentionally homeless people as ‘travellers’ and, at the same time refuse to give planning permission to genuine Gypsy traveller people because they have lost their Gypsy status due to a few years in housing or the fact that they have been on a local authority site for a while.   It is the big G little g scenario.

9.   EU law states that Britain should facilitate the Gypsy way of life. It does not speak of lower case g and it does not indicate who is or who is not lower case g. It does not discuss or make that distinction. It says ‘Britain should facilitate the Gypsy way of life’ and it meant ethnic Gypsies. [ this also applies in law now to both the Scots and the Irish]

10.   You may think that this is an “I only love my own race” presentation; well it is not. I put forward these facts, and I will put forward the balancing argument. There is a rural community that have lived in villages up and down the land for generations. Some of those families have never known any other way of life. Their lifestyle is not one of choice; it is the one they inherited, but given the option, they would choose to remain in the village that their father, grandfather and great grandfather farmed, lived and died in.  The Gypsy community identify with family heritage. These young families cannot afford to live in their villages unless there is subsidised social housing. We can understand their anger when this lifestyle is seen as one of choice and not one of birthright.  We, as Gypsies, are talking small numbers here. There are not millions of us.   

11.   This is a part of the social cohesion agenda. Understanding fully, and trying to balance the rights.


12.   Our way of life is a cultural right and as with all rights it has to be balanced with the rights of others.  That can be, and often is difficult. We need to be cautious, as prescriptive law can sometimes bring more problems and this could be a disaster. However, we do think that there is a need to re visit this issue of definition.


13.   The community are worried about what may happen in the future with regard to 1/06. We understand that the Secretary of State wishes to replace it with a policy. What is to be in that policy and with whom is the Secretary of State going to consult in regard to that policy?

14.   We sincerely hope that the National Federation of Gypsy Liaison Groups will be consulted on this, as we are the only group that has a representative from every region in England and include two groups from Wales.  Remember, there are some hard working groups across the country as a whole, not just in London.

15.   We would hope that a Race Equality Impact Assessment has been carried out before these guidelines are withdrawn. There are still many unequal facets of Gypsy life, especially for the disabled and the elderly.   Most of the Gypsy and Traveller groups would prefer to work on those issues rather than debate accommodation yet again, there is still a lot of work to be done on equality issues.

I'm just in awe at that, Tom, for all the wrong reasons. I'm intrigued by "Wrong reasons" Explain please.

I assume you knew most of the facts, but needed to bone up on specific details. Yes. I knew most of it but I checked anyway. There were some sharp minds there, it wouldn't do to give them an easy opening.

How long did that take to put together? Had to do it at short notice, so did it in one very very long day.

Did you deliver it in written form, as well as "prompts" presumably for a speech? Yes. A very efficient and, if I may say so, fetching young lady makes sure that relevant paperwork is photocopied and distributed among those present before proceedings begin.

How was it received? I would like to think they were a little surprised. I suspect that one or two of the more, shall we say "Vocal" MP's were somewhat wrong-footed.

Were you nervous? Oh God yes. When I sat down after the speech, I took a sip of water and the glass fairly rattled on my teeth. Eric Lubboc (4th Baron Avebury, staunch supporter of the Gypsies), gave me a little wink and a consoling smile.

Only you will know I mean this the right way, but do you ever reflect upon your speaking, writing, & grammatical skills, "all things considered", as I doubt you had a conventional education? I seem to recall when blonde Forum began, you were not as literate as you'd like to be. What a wonderul &, presumably, self-taught thing. Yes. I reflect upon those things, especially reading and writing. It's a skill that most people take for granted, but one that the vast majority of Gypsies of my generation and before missed out on. I feel very privileged. reading has been my escape, my pressure release valve, my window to a world of knowledge.

How good a decision was giving up "Full-Time" poker? Fantastic, or fantastic? I loved full time poker, but I have to admit that I enjoy it much more now that I don't do it for a living.

Do you ever regret giving up full-time poker? No. But then again I rarely regret things like that. I make a decision based on the information available at the time and then just get on with it. I'm much more likely to regret something I haven't done.

I know you do not much love the Admin side of your work, but that job is like letting a kid loose in a sweet factory, is it not? I hate Admin with a passion. I swear to God I would much rather be outside, shovelling shit uphill in the rain, but yes, that apart, I do enjoy it.

I really hope you stick at it for ever. The man who controls the funding keeps his hand very close to the plug

[Laxie]

Red was a great colour choice for your replies.  Easy on the eyes.

[pleno1]

What poker did you play when you were "full time"?

[RED-DOG]

In Boots today I saw "Soap and Glory Sexy Mother Pucker Lip Gloss"

[RED-DOG]

What poker did you play when you were "full time"?

At first (Like 2005 to 2007) I played on line tourneys. I only played about two or three an night, but the games were so soft that I cashed often.

I thought it was because I was good. 

[Claw75]

I'm much more likely to regret something I haven't done.

i've removed the colour from the quote

I have few regrets in life, but for sure any that I might have are things i didn't do because I was too scared or whatever, not things I tried that went tits up (and there are many!).  I would imagine that's the same for the vast majority of people, and it's a good reminder that life's pretty short and we should grab it while we can. 

[RED-DOG]

Red was a great colour choice for your replies.  Easy on the eyes.

i've removed the colour from the quote
 

Lol. Are you ladies taking the piddle?

[Claw75]

Red was a great colour choice for your replies.  Easy on the eyes.

i've removed the colour from the quote
 

Lol. Are you ladies taking the piddle?

actually, i started reading your post earlier on my phone and it was fine.  when i came back to finish it later it on the computer screen I could barely make out the words and had to highlight the text to read it properly

[Laxie]

Red was a great colour choice for your replies.  Easy on the eyes.

i've removed the colour from the quote
 

Lol. Are you ladies taking the piddle?

actually, i started reading your post earlier on my phone and it was fine.  when i came back to finish it later it on the computer screen I could barely make out the words and had to highlight the text to read it properly

^This.  Sorry.  Was soooo tired yesterday and couldn't get my head around all of it but very much interested.  Which is why I came back this morning and re-read the lot - highlighted. 

It must be fierce frustrating having to constantly explain the differences between genuine Gypsies and the others.  Even more so when dealing with supposedly well educated individuals as they usually reckon they already know it all.

I read the lot, honest I did.  But the very last line caught me for a hop.  Is he threatening to pull the plug?  If so...WHY?!