Seeing your neighbour's cards.

[GlasgowBandit]

Would anyones opinion change if they looked down and saw that you had J 5o  ?

As for this hand I raise with the KK and pass A 2

[AlexMartin]

Poker players right to get and conceal information regardless of how (but within the rules). Use what you know to your advantage. I firmly believe this.

[snoopy1239]

I take you mean from an +ev standpoint and not a moral standpoint.

1. We are 80/20 fave preflop and we can assume he calls your shove pretty close to 100% of the time. Lets say 98%. Our equity is therefore just below 80%. I think this is better than seeing flop and (a) Him flopping a q or (b) getting a board that is bad with an ace or king on (more than 80% chance of this happening)

I agree it's a shove. However, If he calls 98% of the time then surely it's an easy decision to push pre-flop.  I don't think you can group together (a) and (b) as (a) let's you get away and saves you money (board would be the same if you pushed pre-flop) whilst (b) lets him gets away and costs you money. I might be wrong in that assessment though.

[Claw75]

Would anyones opinion change if they looked down and saw that you had J 5o  ?

no difference - fold and don't say anything - there's no need as long as no-one else has seen the cards.  The only time I would feel uncomfortable with not saying anything is if I have a hand I might otherwise have played (eg AQ) which I would now fold as a result of seeing his cards.  Even then I probably wouldn't say anything until the hand is over, then just have a quiet word in his ear before the next hand is dealt saying he needs to be careful, as he was in danger of showing his cards.

[snoopy1239]

moral viewpoints cool as well. My understanding was that after the hand you have a quiet word and let him know he's showing his cards, but you can bust him out here maybe. If you say something, there is still a person to act, he may have AA.

I'm thinking the right thing to do is fold but that just seems wrong I didn't ask him to show his bloody cards, it's his job to protect them, but but but...

I can't speak for everyone else, but morally, I'd inform the dealer/tournament director that the player had inadvertently shown their cards and let them make the decision. There have been times where I've take this route and it has been ungratefully received with people somehow accusing me of cheating. However, I'd still have a guilty conscience if I played out the hand knowing that I'd seen what my opponent held. It's not how I want to beat him, even if it was his fault.

Byron, are you telling me that you'd bust him and then have a quiet word afterwards telling him that you knew his hand? Good luck!

[Claw75]

I would imagine the 'quiet word afterwards' would only apply if you'd folded and he was still in!

[byronkincaid]

I'm asking not saying. Just wondered what the right thing to do is. There doesn't seem to be a consensus so far. Does it make a difference if the player has many years of experience or is a total n00b? I guess not.

[byronkincaid]

I'd inform the dealer/tournament director that the player had inadvertently shown their cards and let them make the decision. There have been times where I've take this route and it has been ungratefully received with people somehow accusing me of cheating.

what was the decision that they made?

You're at the FT of the WSOP with 4 BBs in the BB. It's folded round to the SB who accidently shows you KK. He pushes AI for 4 BBs. You have AA. If you call and win you jump $1 million in prize money. It seems totally wrong that there should be any possibility of you having to fold now.

[LuckyLloyd]

People are supposed to protect their holecards. If I have this advantage I'm running with it.

And I think that you should just call both raises assuming you have a 20BB stack.

[snoopy1239]

I'd inform the dealer/tournament director that the player had inadvertently shown their cards and let them make the decision. There have been times where I've take this route and it has been ungratefully received with people somehow accusing me of cheating.

what was the decision that they made?

You're at the FT of the WSOP with 4 BBs in the BB. It's folded round to the SB who accidently shows you KK. He pushes AI for 4 BBs. You have AA. If you call and win you jump $1 million in prize money. It seems totally wrong that there should be any possibility of you having to fold now.

I wouldn't fold, but I'd still make an official aware of the situation. The depth of the situation and the money involved doesn't change things for me.

[LOJ]

a) Tell him
b) Tell him


If for some reason you didnt want too,

a) Standard re-raise
b) Call, you'll know exactly where you stand

Would this situation change if you were in a £100 FO and on the FT??

[Card_Shark]

In many games/sports the number 1 rule is that "The game shall be played in a sporting manner". I believe that if i were to go on and win the pot/tournament without saying something to the dealer or an official at the time of the incident, then the pot/tournament would be greatly devalued ie. the win would be worthless if it left me feeling like i was a cheat. I would let the official/dealer make the final decision, either way win or lose my morals are in tact.

In my opinion this is similar to snooker players calling fouls on them selves when they accidentally touch the cue ball with the tip of there cue before playing a shot. Maybe we should be playing poker with the same level of honesty/integrity?

[Longy]

And I think that you should just call both raises assuming you have a 20BB stack.

Really?

In both cases i don't think the stacks are deep enough in either case to gather a big enough advantage by playing perfectly postflop.

[MANTIS01]

I play hard and fair....but this is a dog eat dog game. Poker players excell when they feed on the weaknesses of other players. If you have a problem jumping all over somebody's failings then I really don't think you have the right mentality for the game. "Let's not raise the little old lady because she can't see all that well"...."Let's not hammer the shortstack because we feel sorry for him"

If a player is leaking information by exposing their cards then more fool them. They better learn to sharpen up a bit if they want to do well in the game. There isn't a wellfare system in poker so simply put the weak get crushed. Helping your opponents to play better against you during a tournament is quite ridiculous. In fact the whole table should stand up, join hands and sing Kum Ba Yah My Lord if we are going to go down this road.

Players used to expose their cards on purpose to try and help them make a decision.

If you had a solid tell on someone would you let them know? "Excuse me sir, every time you're strong you scratch your nose"....don't be ridiculous. The "spirit" of poker is not upheld if you help the weak!

[snoopy1239]

In many games/sports the number 1 rule is that "The game shall be played in a sporting manner". I believe that if i were to go on and win the pot/tournament without saying something to the dealer or an official at the time of the incident, then the pot/tournament would be greatly devalued ie. the win would be worthless if it left me feeling like i was a cheat. I would let the official/dealer make the final decision, either way win or lose my morals are in tact.

In my opinion this is similar to snooker players calling fouls on them selves when they accidentally touch the cue ball with the tip of there cue before playing a shot. Maybe we should be playing poker with the same level of honesty/integrity?