MMR does NOT cause autism

[cia260895]

My youngest is autistic and the research came out around just after he was diagnosed with autism,
At the time we questioned if it was the MMR that would have been responsible,but through the lack
of substantiated evidence,and listening to the specialist involved we didn't think it was viable to put
it down to that, although at the time it would have been comforting to have been able to pinpoint the
blame onto something.

The best way that the MMR jab was described to us was that it was like taking a drink of whisky gin
and vodka all ok on their own but put them all in 1 glass and give it to 100 people to drink and see
the different reactions it has on everybody.Although not a scientific explanation easy to understand.
Autism affects the frontal lobes of the brain and how information is received and processed and there
is a wide spectrum that it covers depending on how severe/mild someone has it,a typical case is Bill
Gates who has aspergers syndrome which is a form of autism but the high functioning side of autism
is rare.

The only trouble i see now as the same as back then is that the research only covered about 250
children aged 10-12 and depending on whose research you read the actual figure of children affected
by autism differs between 1 in 58 and 1 in 1000 from my dealings i would guess about 1 in 750 isn't
far off.

if i were to have another child (which I'm not) i would get the 3 separate jabs,i know they do it abroad
and there are some Dr's who will get the vaccines and do it over here.

[suzanne]

From the Beeb:

Children with autism do not react differently to other youngsters to the MMR jab, a study shows.

London's Guy's and St Thomas's Hospital found no difference in the immune response to the jab in a study of 240 children aged between 10 and 12.

Fears about a link between the two were first raised in 1998, prompting a drop in uptake of the vaccine, but that research has now been discredited.

Studies since have shown there is no link and that has been confirmed again.

More here:

There is no evidence to link the MMR vaccination to autism in children, according to a substantial new study published today.

In the biggest review conducted to date, scientists from Guy's Hospital in London, Manchester University and the Health Protection Agency, analysed the blood from 250 children and concluded that the vaccine could not be responsible.

However, I doubt that this study will get the same feverish tabloid coverage than the discredited one that linked the two in the first place. 

Many parents are still not getting their children vaccinated, and leaving them vulnerable to measles...

Report from last August:

Parents have been urged to give their children the MMR vaccine as it was revealed Britain is in the middle of the worst measles outbreak for 20 years.

The unprecedented warning from the Health Protection Agency came as the number of children suffering from the disease trebled over the last 11 weeks.

Experts fear even more will be infected as the autumn school term begins.

This is the worst outbreak since the controversial MMR vaccine was introduced in 1988.

Take-up of the triple jab - which also protects against mumps and rubella - plummeted to 80 per cent after Dr Andrew Wakefield claimed it was linked to autism and bowel problems.

Leading scientists have since debunked Dr Wakefield's claims and rates of uptake are creeping back to recommended levels - except in London, where a quarter of children are still not vaccinated.

It's amazing how a single, unsubstantiated study can be picked up by the press, and then cause such widespread panic amongst the public.  Then when science shows that the panic or anxiety is unnecessary, people are still convinced in their minds that MMR is 'bad' and ignore the scientific and medical advice.  Bonkers.

Im too tired to take in all the details but this is one subject that will always get my back up so I wont be able to go to bed without saying something.

A survey of 250 kids?? what a joke!!!!

Both my youngest kids are autistic and I am convinced the MMR caused it.

Why?? Because I have my daughter on video a week before her vaccination at 18 months as a happy wee soul laughing, chatting and very active...3 weeks later she says nothing, she sits in 1 spot rocking back and forth and screams when I touch her.

Then she had these spots..I took her to the doctor when she was 3ish saying she kept getting these spots and i pointed out about a dozen on her body. Thats measles he said but dont worry shes picked up a mild infection..she is now 10 nearly 11 and still has measles. I can post a pic and would love a second opinion if there are any doctors out there.

Why is it so bizarre to believe that a multi concoction of 3 deadly diseases injected into a baby would do no harm?

Havent we all seen on the news about some poor kids who tried drugs for the first time and ended up dead!! what made that kid so different?

I could go on and on and if I didnt have so many problems of my own right now I would.

My advise TANK and all the other new parents...its not that expensive (£200ish)...take the jabs seperate.

[vegaslover]

Don't know about how it for others but I could easily have had the 3 seperate jabs instead of one. I live in Sussex. Would had to of paid obviously.
Saying that I still went for the combined MMR dose.

[Jon MW]

From the Beeb:

Children with autism do not react differently to other youngsters to the MMR jab, a study shows.

London's Guy's and St Thomas's Hospital found no difference in the immune response to the jab in a study of 240 children aged between 10 and 12.

Fears about a link between the two were first raised in 1998, prompting a drop in uptake of the vaccine, but that research has now been discredited.

Studies since have shown there is no link and that has been confirmed again.

More here:

There is no evidence to link the MMR vaccination to autism in children, according to a substantial new study published today.

In the biggest review conducted to date, scientists from Guy's Hospital in London, Manchester University and the Health Protection Agency, analysed the blood from 250 children and concluded that the vaccine could not be responsible.

However, I doubt that this study will get the same feverish tabloid coverage than the discredited one that linked the two in the first place. 

Many parents are still not getting their children vaccinated, and leaving them vulnerable to measles...

Report from last August:

Parents have been urged to give their children the MMR vaccine as it was revealed Britain is in the middle of the worst measles outbreak for 20 years.

The unprecedented warning from the Health Protection Agency came as the number of children suffering from the disease trebled over the last 11 weeks.

Experts fear even more will be infected as the autumn school term begins.

This is the worst outbreak since the controversial MMR vaccine was introduced in 1988.

Take-up of the triple jab - which also protects against mumps and rubella - plummeted to 80 per cent after Dr Andrew Wakefield claimed it was linked to autism and bowel problems.

Leading scientists have since debunked Dr Wakefield's claims and rates of uptake are creeping back to recommended levels - except in London, where a quarter of children are still not vaccinated.

It's amazing how a single, unsubstantiated study can be picked up by the press, and then cause such widespread panic amongst the public.  Then when science shows that the panic or anxiety is unnecessary, people are still convinced in their minds that MMR is 'bad' and ignore the scientific and medical advice.  Bonkers.

Im too tired to take in all the details but this is one subject that will always get my back up so I wont be able to go to bed without saying something.

A survey of 250 kids?? what a joke!!!!

Both my youngest kids are autistic and I am convinced the MMR caused it.

Why?? Because I have my daughter on video a week before her vaccination at 18 months as a happy wee soul laughing, chatting and very active...3 weeks later she says nothing, she sits in 1 spot rocking back and forth and screams when I touch her.

Then she had these spots..I took her to the doctor when she was 3ish saying she kept getting these spots and i pointed out about a dozen on her body. Thats measles he said but dont worry shes picked up a mild infection..she is now 10 nearly 11 and still has measles. I can post a pic and would love a second opinion if there are any doctors out there.

Why is it so bizarre to believe that a multi concoction of 3 deadly diseases injected into a baby would do no harm?

Havent we all seen on the news about some poor kids who tried drugs for the first time and ended up dead!! what made that kid so different?

I could go on and on and if I didnt have so many problems of my own right now I would.

My advise TANK and all the other new parents...its not that expensive (£200ish)...take the jabs seperate.

Obviously it can be an emotive subject and I certainly wouldn't want to offend your feelings, but, within 3 lines you denigrated the report the BBC were reporting on because the sample size was only 250 - but have then given your evidence based on a sample size of 2, just your kids.

In terms of looking at sample size it should be remembered that this is the largest study, but it isn't the only one - every other of the (admittedly small) studies have also came up with the same result. And that the original report which started the MMR scare was based on a sample size of only 12.

It's true that injecting babies with all the chemicals they receive when they get all their jabs could be expected to cause some adverse reaction some of the time, but what a lot of these studies show isn't that the MMR jab is safe but that it is no greater risk (and no less risk) than taking them separately.

[Ginger]

It's true that injecting babies with all the chemicals they receive when they get all their jabs could be expected to cause some adverse reaction some of the time, but what a lot of these studies show isn't that the MMR jab is safe but that it is no greater risk (and no less risk) than taking them separately.

The risk of Autism ISN'T the only argument for single vaccines (though I acknowledge it's the topic of this thread), it IS NOT SAFE for some children for other reasons. The only safe method would be to have separate vaccines, and then only have 2 of the 3.

[Jon MW]

It's true that injecting babies with all the chemicals they receive when they get all their jabs could be expected to cause some adverse reaction some of the time, but what a lot of these studies show isn't that the MMR jab is safe but that it is no greater risk (and no less risk) than taking them separately.

The risk of Autism ISN'T the only argument for single vaccines (though I acknowledge it's the topic of this thread), it IS NOT SAFE for some children for other reasons. The only safe method would be to have separate vaccines, and then only have 2 of the 3.

Sorry, you did suggest that earlier - I defer to your greater knowledge on the broader perspective.

My post does just stand on the autism argument.

[patman]

i am in such a quandry at the moment. and in a difficult position as well.
my daughter is due the mmr soon and i have major reservations on it  on several fronts
1st is the autism link  - we have family experience of post mmr autism that was very close to the jab and therefore diccicult to rule out mmr as a cause
secondly i have a wife who works in the community(nursing) and who has also got reservations on it - as a last position she will have my daighter vacinnated but that is on the grounds that she will not tolerate the chances of catching measles as she has seen what effect it can have on young kids
BUT
there is a unspoken(except in private) feeling amongst a lot of her doctors that there may well be a link but they cannot voice their concern as there is at present no real large study that has found a link - and the intial publisher has been targetted for report. so no doctor will say what they may feel  - that they would like parents to have a choice.

in summing i am so annoyed that for whatever reason there is no alternative(i do not know whether this is by deliberate design or genuine supply issues)

it seems choice is not a choice, which is sad when you consider that you only get one chance to get it right and the though of having to take the risk when there could be a choice for me is fairly bitter and unpalatable to have to make.

[AndrewT]

there is a unspoken(except in private) feeling amongst a lot of her doctors that there may well be a link but they cannot voice their concern as there is at present no real large study that has found a link

Doctors putting 'feelings' ahead of 'evidence' - WTF are they teaching at medical school these days?

[patman]

there is a unspoken(except in private) feeling amongst a lot of her doctors that there may well be a link but they cannot voice their concern as there is at present no real large study that has found a link

Doctors putting 'feelings' ahead of 'evidence' - WTF are they teaching at medical school these days?

Andrew...shame on you sir for the sarcasm....i believ some of the best research and diagnosis can be based on a hunch or feeling intially..and i believe is the first rule of medicine is first do no harm

what i believe i was trying to impart is that there are  a few doctors who having seen pre and post mmr babies/kids are uncomfortable with the position at present that there is no link(but voicing it seems to be a dangerous route). if that is at a local level what is the national position
the fact(and i acknowledge on the basis of study to date) that there seems to be no link does not make it 100% there is not...facts change over time.....as does medicine and medical fact

i would hate to be in the position similar to thalidomide was it? where it was safe - no problem - until it wasn't

so i believe what i am saying is surely there is room for choice for parents until we have had a wide spread wide ranging study into mmr. 
i would not be of a mind to say hey ho hindsight is a wonderful thing if my or another child was to end up with aspergers or serious autism for the want of a choice and and exhaustive study.

open minded i am both ways but i believe in choice

now i`m at work  so need to be on here sparingly so will return

[kinboshi]

But there haven't been ANY studies that have shown a correlation.

[Jon MW]

...
what i believe i was trying to impart is that there are  a few doctors who having seen pre and post mmr babies/kids ...

To expand on what Kinboshi was saying: Essentially this was the basis of the original 'scare', but GP's are not specialists.

It was right for them to question whether there was a link based on their observation, but now that specialists have investigated it and found that there isn't one you should be able to expect a scientific profession to accept these results.

That said, there should be a choice because it's always better to have a choice.

[patman]

i have not argued with the fact that to date with the exception of the discredited author that there are no studies that show a link.
I only point out that there was and remains unease at grass roots level over mmr and not just from parents.

that however does not convince me that there will never be a study that shows a link - i dont doubt that there are studies ongoing at present in various forms and scope of investigations -  and to that end as john states there should always be a choice -

that is what i find troubling  - for whatever reason financial,policy or supply no option has been offered by government..its a one choice field...


 

[AndrewT]

If there was a link between MMR and autism it would show up in at least one, if not most studies. It has been proved in none.

As I said earlier, we are subject to various biases in our perception of the world which renders our view of things as incorrect. Biases which a lot of anti-MMR posters on this thread have clearly shown in their posts.

Andrew...shame on you sir for the sarcasm....i believ some of the best research and diagnosis can be based on a hunch or feeling intially..and i believe is the first rule of medicine is first do no harm

The way science works is someone has a hunch or feeling, then conducts research to see if evidence supports their hunch. If it does, then maybe the hunch is good. If not, the hunch is wrong and it's dropped.

I hope your doctor doesn't routinely use hunches for which every study has found no link.

i would hate to be in the position similar to thalidomide was it? where it was safe - no problem - until it wasn't

Thalidomide is an entirely erroneous comparison to draw. The problems with Thalidomide were caused precisely by the fact it wasn't tested on humans before going on sale. If it had been, then the birth deformities would have been discovered.

Your position is analagous to a doctor who would prescribe Thalidomide after studies had shown it to cause birth defects because 'he has a hunch the studies are wrong'.

[suzanne]

If there was a link between MMR and autism it would show up in at least one, if not most studies. It has been proved in none.

As I said earlier, we are subject to various biases in our perception of the world which renders our view of things as incorrect. Biases which a lot of anti-MMR posters on this thread have clearly shown in their posts.

Andrew...shame on you sir for the sarcasm....i believ some of the best research and diagnosis can be based on a hunch or feeling intially..and i believe is the first rule of medicine is first do no harm

Andrew I dont have the vocabulary to argue with you an your level but it was pretty obvious that there was always going to be a "we have proved the MMR - Autism link doesnt exist"

WHY?

The compensation claims of thousands of brain damaged children.

[suzanne]

Im sure there are loads people that are upset about these findings..im too tired to care.