MMR does NOT cause autism

[cia260895]

Im sure there are loads people that are upset about these findings..im too tired to care.

But never too tired to care for the kiddies..

approximately 600,000 babies born each year and 250 kids surveyed =0.041% is that an acceptable level on to publish findings?

[Jon MW]

Im sure there are loads people that are upset about these findings..im too tired to care.

But never too tired to care for the kiddies..

approximately 600,000 babies born each year and 250 kids surveyed =0.041% is that an acceptable level on to publish findings?

And the report which originally started the scare was based on 12 kids - is that better?

[cia260895]

Im sure there are loads people that are upset about these findings..im too tired to care.

But never too tired to care for the kiddies..

approximately 600,000 babies born each year and 250 kids surveyed =0.041% is that an acceptable level on to publish findings?

And the report which originally started the scare was based on 12 kids - is that better?

Far from it.

 but it highlighted the need for a proper study into it,surely no too much too ask??

[kinboshi]

http://www.jr2.ox.ac.uk/bandolier/booth/Vaccines/MMRUK.html

[cia260895]

And so the study was done.

And the clinical trials into it?

FYI i am not against the MMR but just would like to see a proper clinical trial into it.

 As a parent of an autistic child you do tend to look at this topic differently.

[kinboshi]

As a parent of an autistic child you do tend to look at this topic differently.

I understand that people with an autistic child will look at the subject emotionally, but dare I say subjectively as well?

Let me put it this way.  If that (now discredited) 'study' of 12 children hadn't taken place, and the press hysteria that accompanied it had also never happened, would there be this resounding 'belief' that MMR causes autism?  What is the basis for this belief?

[AndrewT]

As a parent of an autistic child you do tend to look at this topic differently.

That's kind of been my point throughout the thread.

It's only natural for someone to let their personal experience affect their judgement. That's how we get through life - we are but the sum of our experiences.

However, when it comes to scientific matters, these experiences hinder, not help us, which is why outside influences and personal thoughts are removed as much as possible.

[byronkincaid]

As a parent of an autistic child you do tend to look at this topic differently.

I understand that people with an autistic child will look at the subject emotionally, but dare I say subjectively as well?

Let me put it this way.  If that (now discredited) 'study' of 12 children hadn't taken place, and the press hysteria that accompanied it had also never happened, would there be this resounding 'belief' that MMR causes autism?  What is the basis for this belief?

Why?? Because I have my daughter on video a week before her vaccination at 18 months as a happy wee soul laughing, chatting and very active...3 weeks later she says nothing, she sits in 1 spot rocking back and forth and screams when I touch her.

[cia260895]

I am not looking at this emotionally or subjectively but rationally,surely a comprehensive clinical trial/study would then eradicate any doubt or prove the link?

I'm sure if it wasn't Andrew Wakefields study then someone else would have done 1 because of  the increase of autism cases being diagnosed.IMO the increase is due to better diagnosis of autism rather than what was previously perceived notion of unruly/difficult children,lets not forget yesteryear when autistic children/adults were institutionalised in mental homes.

[kinboshi]

As a parent of an autistic child you do tend to look at this topic differently.

I understand that people with an autistic child will look at the subject emotionally, but dare I say subjectively as well?

Let me put it this way.  If that (now discredited) 'study' of 12 children hadn't taken place, and the press hysteria that accompanied it had also never happened, would there be this resounding 'belief' that MMR causes autism?  What is the basis for this belief?

Why?? Because I have my daughter on video a week before her vaccination at 18 months as a happy wee soul laughing, chatting and very active...3 weeks later she says nothing, she sits in 1 spot rocking back and forth and screams when I touch her.

Is that not how autism often develops (in children who do or don't have the MMR vaccination?  I must admit, I'm not an expert on autism and I hope that a lot of money is being spent on looking at the condition and at what causes it.

I went to Wales to play poker last month, and came back with the flu.  Does that mean that if anyone goes to Wales they catch the flu?

[kinboshi]

I am not looking at this emotionally or subjectively but rationally,surely a comprehensive clinical trial/study would then eradicate any doubt or prove the link?

I'm sure if it wasn't Andrew Wakefields study then someone else would have done 1 because of  the increase of autism cases being diagnosed.IMO the increase is due to better diagnosis of autism rather than what was previously perceived notion of unruly/difficult children,lets not forget yesteryear when autistic children/adults were institutionalised in mental homes.

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=mg18524895.300

[AndrewT]

As a parent of an autistic child you do tend to look at this topic differently.

I understand that people with an autistic child will look at the subject emotionally, but dare I say subjectively as well?

Let me put it this way.  If that (now discredited) 'study' of 12 children hadn't taken place, and the press hysteria that accompanied it had also never happened, would there be this resounding 'belief' that MMR causes autism?  What is the basis for this belief?

Why?? Because I have my daughter on video a week before her vaccination at 18 months as a happy wee soul laughing, chatting and very active...3 weeks later she says nothing, she sits in 1 spot rocking back and forth and screams when I touch her.

Is that not how autism often develops (in children who do or don't have the MMR vaccination?  I must admit, I'm not an expert on autism and I hope that a lot of money is being spent on looking at the condition and at what causes it.

I went to Wales to play poker last month, and came back with the flu.  Does that mean that if anyone goes to Wales they catch the flu?

Precisely - correlation does not imply causation.

[cia260895]

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=mg18524895.300

I quote from the above "The study cannot rule out the possibility that MMR triggers autism in a tiny number of children"

[kinboshi]

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=mg18524895.300

I quote from the above "The study cannot rule out the possibility that MMR triggers autism in a tiny number of children"

In the same way it can't rule out that milk might cause autism in a tiny number of children.

[Jon MW]

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=mg18524895.300

I quote from the above "The study cannot rule out the possibility that MMR triggers autism in a tiny number of children"

As I mentioned before, the studies vindicating MMR aren't generally testing whether there is a possibility that it could trigger autism, they are comparing whether it is better or worse than having the vaccinations separately.

So a "tiny number of children" may have autism triggered by MMR, but it is not a higher number than if they had the jabs separately.