Is this a good place

[lazaroonie]

to discuss / get advice on how I played a hand in a live tournament ? I was playing last night in a "pub" tournament (which was much better run than a lot of casino tourneys), and got a situation which has had me up all night wondering what I should have done. I am going to post it here, and if this is wrong, then sorry, just ignore it.

Blinds are 100/200. Eight players at table, I am mid-stacked with about 4500. I am on the big blind. 4 callers pre-flop (inc blinds), I check with

  

Flop comes

     .

First player checks. I am considering what to do when the player to my left, announces a raise of 500. He quickly gets told that he is betting out of turn (I think it was a genuine mistake). So now its down to me. What to do ? I have a good hand, but what is it worth ? What relevance has the bet from the player out of turn ? What influence should it have ?

In the end I bet 500, he calls and the fourth player folds. So now down to two. The turn comes

 

At this point, I move all in. He calls (he has maybe 500 more in chips than me). He turns over

 

My tournament is over. I dont mind losing, but still being so inexperienced playing live, I want to extract every possible lesson from my defeats as possible. So what did I do wrong.

[TightEnd]

ok, firstly I moved the topic onto General Discussion as that's where the hand analysis takes place


secondly....you know he is going to bet, so why not check raise him?

Sure with KK he's not going away but you are getting more into the pot for the majority of times when you are not going to be outdrawn by a trip K coming..


apart from that, it's just another outdraw and he is rewarded for limping pre flop with a monster. I'm normally punished by the poker gods for doing that!!!

[lazaroonie]

The answer I satisfied myself with before finally getting to sleep was along similar line. I knew that there was an important piece of information which I had overlooked at the time, but was somwhere in the dark corners of my brain.

Earlier in the same tournement this player had flat called A A pre flop. I remembered this at the time and thought "need to remember that, could come in handy". Obviously this should have set alarm bells off when the King hit on the turn card.

I guess, the out of turn raise is largely irrelevant, although it did affect my clear thinking at the time. We were both still going to be in after the flop (raise, check raise, all the difference would have been would have been the amount of chips in the pot). The mistake obviously was going all in when the king hit the turn. A small "feeler" bet would have been better, to find out what kind of position I was really in, and if he had made a big re-raise, then a fold was in order. But I find it hard to get away from any trips, especially when down to two players.

Its all a big learning experience.....


thanks

[AdamM]

yeah, if it was me I'd have checked, let him bet his 500 and then re raised 4500 all in. if he can't pass KK there you get unlucky. I might even have said something like "we both have a 2 do we?' then check raised him. give him every reason to pass it.

[Bongo]

Surely you want him to call with KK Adam?

[AdamM]

would rather punish him for the raise out of turn and take the small pot. it's only bottom set no kicker after all.

[Nem]

would rather punish him for the raise out of turn and take the small pot. it's only bottom set no kicker after all.

LOL

[Bongo]

I agree it's only bottom set no kicker, but i wouldn't want to discourage a call at all, i'd be trying to encourage one.

It's very unlikely you're going to make a better hand pass (pccket are going nowhere, only thing I can see possibly folding is another 2 with a bad kicker), and if you're ahead here you're in front by a long way:

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1314000
pokenum  -h   - kd kh  --
Holdem Hi: 990 enumerated boards containing
cards  win   %win  lose  %lose  tie  %tie     EV
  902  91.11    88   8.89    0  0.00  0.911
   88   8.89   902  91.11    0  0.00  0.089

[Royal Flush]

Not wanting a player with KK in is mad! you have 25 bb's and are average stack, gr8 chance to double up here.

[AdamM]

perhaps just a weakness of mine for me to look at then. I'm never comfortable having all my chips in on bottome set. been knocked out of too many games maybe. before you've bet he's shown stength by being eager to bet. he likes his hand. I'd just rather shut it down there.

[TightEnd]

No, you check raise to build the pot as you know with some justification that he'll call your raise.

You are a 90% favourite against an high overpair, and a strong favourite against two high cards unpaired, you certainly don't check raise all-in....in these situations you acquire chips to win tournaments, outdraws aside.

[ifm]

i just lost a massive pot with 55 v kk on a 5 9 k flop, i could easily have called the river bet but i wanted all her chips so went allin, ok it crossed my mind i could be losing but hey sometimes you just gotta go for it.
que sera sera they say