Ready to call then.....

[PocketLady]

I understand that we only get called by better hands.  But I am happy to win this pot on the flop rather than lose it on a later street.

[Royal Flush]

Posted by: Royal Flush

If you lead i raise you 100% of the time

Which is the very reason I lead geez.

Yeah lead 3 bet i like, i was making a point to the poster who wants to lead fold.

I think you'll find the idea in a tournament is to win chips AND not lose them

How often do you get the nuts?

[KarmaDope]

I understand what has been said about the chances of getting outdrawn, but why risk it.  There is no need.

Basically it works like this:

Say there are 100 players in a tournament who all start with 2000 chips, the player who ends up with 200,000 chips wins the most money.

Statetheobviousaments

But if you go down to 0 chips you win NO money.Why risk a flip for half your stack?

[KarmaDope]

Played as it is until the flop comes:

We check, he bets. If we're ahead, why are we flat calling? Raise now, get his money in there! If we're behind, why are we calling again? Check calling is screaming "I've got a weak hand".  With Jacks on that flop I want to find out where I am ASAP. I would lead out, if I get raised, I'm done with the hand. If I get called, then I proceed with caution. If he folds, fair enough.

Your line vs a decent player means you just do chips in.


Lets see, you check raise me there i am only getting it in with better hands than you, so you get it in behind.

If you lead i raise you 100% of the time, unless i have a set. So you fold a better hand or get in a bigger pot where you are oop.

You never win chips with this approach.

I win chips if you pass to my check raise.

I lose less if I lead and you fold.

Either way, I have more chips than I do if I play it the way you do.

I do think the way you play it isn't bad, but in this hand I'd rather win less than lose loads.

[PocketLady]

Posted by: Royal Flush

I think you'll find the idea in a tournament is to win chips AND not lose them

How often do you get the nuts?

Point taken, but I'm damn sure there are better opportunities to get mine and his chips in than with JJ on a board with an overcard.

[Royal Flush]

I win chips if you pass to my check raise.

You may aswell make the play with 72o

I lose less if I lead and you fold.

eh? i never fold to a lead here

Either way, I have more chips than I do if I play it the way you do.

i win a lot more chips a lot more of the time

I do think the way you play it isn't bad, but in this hand I'd rather win less than lose loads.

[KarmaDope]

I win chips if you pass to my check raise.

You may aswell make the play with 72o

I lose less if I lead and you fold.

eh? i never fold to a lead here

Either way, I have more chips than I do if I play it the way you do.

i win a lot more chips a lot more of the time

I do think the way you play it isn't bad, but in this hand I'd rather win less than lose loads.

The way you play it in his position is correct, but he's an unknown, he could be as tight as Tighty!

[Royal Flush]

I win chips if you pass to my check raise.

You may aswell make the play with 72o

I lose less if I lead and you fold.

eh? i never fold to a lead here

Either way, I have more chips than I do if I play it the way you do.

i win a lot more chips a lot more of the time

I do think the way you play it isn't bad, but in this hand I'd rather win less than lose loads.

The way you play it in his position is correct, but he's an unknown, he could be as tight as Tighty!

Then you are leading into a range of QQ+ on a Q high board, my guess is its not +EV

[PocketLady]

Posted by: Royal Flush

If you lead i raise you 100% of the time

Which is the very reason I lead geez.

Yeah lead 3 bet i like, i was making a point to the poster who wants to lead fold.

I like this too.  I'm just saying no freebies

[KarmaDope]

I win chips if you pass to my check raise.

You may aswell make the play with 72o

I lose less if I lead and you fold.

eh? i never fold to a lead here

Either way, I have more chips than I do if I play it the way you do.

i win a lot more chips a lot more of the time

I do think the way you play it isn't bad, but in this hand I'd rather win less than lose loads.

The way you play it in his position is correct, but he's an unknown, he could be as tight as Tighty!

Then you are leading into a range of QQ+ on a Q high board, my guess is its not +EV

Am I? Against an unknown, my range for him is 88+, A-J+, K-Q.

[Royal Flush]

I win chips if you pass to my check raise.

You may aswell make the play with 72o

I lose less if I lead and you fold.

eh? i never fold to a lead here

Either way, I have more chips than I do if I play it the way you do.

i win a lot more chips a lot more of the time

I do think the way you play it isn't bad, but in this hand I'd rather win less than lose loads.

The way you play it in his position is correct, but he's an unknown, he could be as tight as Tighty!

Then you are leading into a range of QQ+ on a Q high board, my guess is its not +EV

Am I? Against an unknown, my range for him is 88+, A-J+, K-Q.

So we are saying he is an average player with no real flair.

You lead into him on Q hi he prob flats or folds with the smaller pairs, raises AA/KK and maybe QQ. AJ he folds, AQ he raises AK who knows. KQ raises.

Why let him off when he has smaller pair (2 outs) AJ (3 outs) or AK (6 outs)?

[KarmaDope]

So we are saying he is an average player with no real flair.

You lead into him on Q hi he prob flats or folds with the smaller pairs, raises AA/KK and maybe QQ. AJ he folds, AQ he raises AK who knows. KQ raises.

Why let him off when he has smaller pair (2 outs) AJ (3 outs) or AK (6 outs)?

So check-raising the flop is probably the best play, yes?

[LuckyLloyd]

I'm done posting in this thread. And this time I mean it when I say I won't be posting in the PHA board for a long time. I don't gain anything out of it tbh - and there is little reason to educate people when the knowledge all goes one way. I have little interest in winning poker debates for the sake of it.

Someone wiser than me once said:

"Thinking you could be ahead is not usually a good enough reason to raise".

[Royal Flush]

So we are saying he is an average player with no real flair.

You lead into him on Q hi he prob flats or folds with the smaller pairs, raises AA/KK and maybe QQ. AJ he folds, AQ he raises AK who knows. KQ raises.

Why let him off when he has smaller pair (2 outs) AJ (3 outs) or AK (6 outs)?

So check-raising the flop is probably the best play, yes?

2nd best after check calling.

[KarmaDope]

So we are saying he is an average player with no real flair.

You lead into him on Q hi he prob flats or folds with the smaller pairs, raises AA/KK and maybe QQ. AJ he folds, AQ he raises AK who knows. KQ raises.

Why let him off when he has smaller pair (2 outs) AJ (3 outs) or AK (6 outs)?

So check-raising the flop is probably the best play, yes?

2nd best after check calling.

Why? If you CR, you know where you are. If you CC...you have no clue where you are. He could have any 2...