Ready to call then.....

[MANTIS01]

Posted by: RobS

This is absolute nonsense mate. If someone unknown to you open raises in ep of course you can make a "best guess" as to their range and play accordingly.

There are 169 combinations of starting hands an unknown can open raise with in ep. What factors are you using to discount most of these Rob?

Poker is a game of information and without information your "best guess" is just that...a guess. You eliminate scores of possible hands because you just do and you have no real justification for doing it.

Your best guess may be that your Jacks are no better than 55% but because this is based on nothing then allow me the opportunity to disagree with you.

Also, why is c-raising with Jacks on a raggy board the best play? Because as many have said on this thread...you'll only get worse to fold.

Posted by: Royal Flush

They would be able to deduce it was the scene of a murder though.....

We can deduce Villain is raising with two cards

[Royal Flush]

We can deduce Villain is raising with two cards

More likely AA than 72, i don't need to know that for sure i am quite happy stereotyping an unknown and treating him as a standard player on that particular site until i know better.

[Dry em]

Cocoa FTW IMO

[fidget]

Do the people who hate a check call on the flop still hate a check call if weve 3bet pre?

[boldie]

Do the people who hate a check call on the flop still hate a check call if weve 3bet pre?

I never just check call if I've three bet pre in this position....ever.

[fidget]

Do the people who hate a check call on the flop still hate a check call if weve 3bet pre?

why not?

I never just check call if I've three bet pre in this position....ever.

[boldie]

Do the people who hate a check call on the flop still hate a check call if weve 3bet pre?

I never just check call if I've three bet pre in this position....ever.

why not?

(moved the why not)

Sorry mate..I can write a longer post why I prefer the check-raise or to lead out tomorrow but in short;

What does check-calling accomplish when you've 3 bet pre-flop? (Other than pot control because you're playing OOP...which is something you should have thought about pre-flop when 3 betting him.)
I really don't like showing strenght pre-flop by 3-betting someone when I'm OOP and then just check-calling my way through a hand...It's a sure fire way of bleeding chips when you're already behind..or not maximising when you are in front (unless you are up against a serial bluffer)

[fidget]

theres no need for pot control here after a 3 bet preflop - hed have 15k left if we made it 6k
why let him pass worse by check raising if he bets  - its not like he can bust us but ive got to let him try to bust himself

[AlexMartin]

lol this thread still kicking.

[MANTIS01]

Posted by: Royal Flush

More likely AA than 72, i don't need to know that for sure i am quite happy stereotyping an unknown and treating him as a standard player on that particular site until i know better.

I think that is a fair enough point.

However, I would qualify that by saying it is really up to the individual player to ascribe a range for an unknown ep raiser and there really isn't a right or wrong here. It is quite reasonable to assume that the range of a competent player is textbook tight until you know better. However, I think in a $200 tournament at a stage when lots of pre-flop raises are getting through, and ep raises have extra credibility, a competent player wouldn't have a textbook tight range.

Personally until I know better I think someone who can play will raise with a wider range than 88+/A-J+......because he's competent (e.g. any pair). And that's why I question the 55% at best figure (think those stats are pre-flop anyway) and still fancy my hand is best on the flop.