Stars Steps Hands

[KarmaDope]

Fold first one. There's still another player to act who could have you dominated, before you even think about the all in guy.

Call the second faster than Kev gets to the buffet!

[jezza777]

Thanks for the replies. I passed the jacks and called with the A9. Seems my judgement is ok.

[AlexMartin]

1 - call
2 - fold

yep.

[action man]

we are passing the JJ with 7 bb?  the shover has fold equity which widens his range the OR needs a big hand to call (if we overcall) and if he doesnt there is 600 extra equity in the pot. If we win the pot we are in great shape.

[Longy]

we are passing the JJ with 7 bb?  the shover has fold equity which widens his range the OR needs a big hand to call (if we overcall) and if he doesnt there is 600 extra equity in the pot. If we win the pot we are in great shape.

This is really flawed thinking in a sng format, sngs because of the payout structure (this include steps) are about preserving chips in most situations in comparison to gaining them. As each chip you have when you are low stack is worth alot more than when you are big stack.

We are on the first payout bubble on the steps format and therefore we are already tightening up our calling ranges.

Fwiw I put through sngwiz just now with a 15%(a4+,kj+,33=) opening range for villian calling only top (1010+,ak) and a 5%(aq+,99+) range for the 3bettor and it is only call for qq+. JJ is about a 1% of the prizepool mistake in calling.

Of course this range are based on them both being solid players, but we don't have any reads.

[GlasgowBandit]

we are passing the JJ with 7 bb?  the shover has fold equity which widens his range the OR needs a big hand to call (if we overcall) and if he doesnt there is 600 extra equity in the pot. If we win the pot we are in great shape.

This is really flawed thinking in a sng format, sngs because of the payout structure (this include steps) are about preserving chips in most situations in comparison to gaining them. As each chip you have when you are low stack is worth alot more than when you are big stack.

We are on the first payout bubble on the steps format and therefore we are already tightening up our calling ranges.

Fwiw I put through sngwiz just now with a 15%(a4+,kj+,33=) opening range for villian calling only top (1010+,ak) and a 5%(aq+,99+) range for the 3bettor and it is only call for qq+. JJ is about a 1% of the prizepool mistake in calling.

Of course this range are based on them both being solid players, but we don't have any reads.

This is where I think all these tools are crazy.

I don't get why we pass JJ and call with A9?  It seeme mental to me. 

Maybe this is where I am going wrong? I I much rather get my chips in the middle with JJ over A9 any day of the week.

[Longy]

we are passing the JJ with 7 bb?  the shover has fold equity which widens his range the OR needs a big hand to call (if we overcall) and if he doesnt there is 600 extra equity in the pot. If we win the pot we are in great shape.

This is really flawed thinking in a sng format, sngs because of the payout structure (this include steps) are about preserving chips in most situations in comparison to gaining them. As each chip you have when you are low stack is worth alot more than when you are big stack.

We are on the first payout bubble on the steps format and therefore we are already tightening up our calling ranges.

Fwiw I put through sngwiz just now with a 15%(a4+,kj+,33=) opening range for villian calling only top (1010+,ak) and a 5%(aq+,99+) range for the 3bettor and it is only call for qq+. JJ is about a 1% of the prizepool mistake in calling.

Of course this range are based on them both being solid players, but we don't have any reads.

This is where I think all these tools are crazy.

I don't get why we pass JJ and call with A9?  It seeme mental to me. 

Maybe this is where I am going wrong? I I much rather get my chips in the middle with JJ over A9 any day of the week.

Bandit stop thinking about the value of the cards in front of you and look to assess the situation this is nothing to do with tools essentially.

In the first case we have a raise from EP with probably decent cards and then a 3bet from the co now this guy almost certainly has something strong (just how strong). Therefore jj doesn't look great as we have info the other two players like/love their hand.Tough fold.

In the 2nd situation we have a shortie who opens on the button, he is desperate and need chips, he is going to shove lots of hands here, you would I hope. Firstly look at the pot odds, hmmm there nice over 2 to 1 against a player who is desperate. Zomg I has an ace, this is likely to be good and only have to win this hand less than 1 in 3 times to make a profit long term. Easy call.

Surely you can see the difference, no tools required, well apart from me.

[boldie]

we are passing the JJ with 7 bb?  the shover has fold equity which widens his range the OR needs a big hand to call (if we overcall) and if he doesnt there is 600 extra equity in the pot. If we win the pot we are in great shape.

This is really flawed thinking in a sng format, sngs because of the payout structure (this include steps) are about preserving chips in most situations in comparison to gaining them. As each chip you have when you are low stack is worth alot more than when you are big stack.

We are on the first payout bubble on the steps format and therefore we are already tightening up our calling ranges.

Fwiw I put through sngwiz just now with a 15%(a4+,kj+,33=) opening range for villian calling only top (1010+,ak) and a 5%(aq+,99+) range for the 3bettor and it is only call for qq+. JJ is about a 1% of the prizepool mistake in calling.

Of course this range are based on them both being solid players, but we don't have any reads.

This is where I think all these tools are crazy.

I don't get why we pass JJ and call with A9?  It seeme mental to me. 

Maybe this is where I am going wrong? I I much rather get my chips in the middle with JJ over A9 any day of the week.

Yes. Longy put it much more eloquent than I can in his reply but if you think the JJ situation is a better situation for a call than the A9 situation you really haven't thought it through or should work on it a bit more mate.

[fidget]

I call both.
The A9 is easy.
The JJ because  i disagree with the ranges in Longys calculation.
These ranges only make it a 1% mistake and I think they give far too much credit to the other two players.
As you say these are the ranges a competent STT player would have.
If youve scoped them both and they are both winners then fine I suppose you can pass but I think that in a vacuum passing would be a mistake.
The steps offer value from weaker players moving up and as Longy says
"Thats prob cos they don't understand ICM, most poker players don't."

Feel free to put me straight if my thinking is flawed

[GlasgowBandit]

I've just been given a lesson in push/fold theory by the one and only Mr Boba Fett.  We agree the first one is marginal but I am still deffo calling and I am now calling hand 2 2 as well.

[boldie]

I've just been given a lesson in push/fold theory by the one and only Mr Boba Fett.  We agree the first one is marginal but I am still deffo calling and I am now calling hand 2 2 as well.

Good man, Bandit.

[NoflopsHomer]

Instashove both and then type in to the chatbox, "I'm doing the robot dance in my pants in front of my computer whilst you donks give me your precious money that should've been spent on your child's birthday present."

[boldie]

Instashove both and then type in to the chatbox, "I'm doing the robot dance in my pants in front of my computer whilst you donks give me your precious money that should've been spent on your child's birthday present."

now there's an image I did not need.

[Boba Fett]

After said discussions with Mr. Bandit on push/fold theory, I still fold JJ and call A9 but here is another question.  What would the calling range for Hand 1 be?  I say AA/KK/QQ but Im questioning QQ, I think its on the correct side of marginal but I have no ICM tools to check.

[Longy]

After said discussions with Mr. Bandit on push/fold theory, I still fold JJ and call A9 but here is another question.  What would the calling range for Hand 1 be?  I say AA/KK/QQ but Im questioning QQ, I think its on the correct side of marginal but I have no ICM tools to check.

Fwiw I put through sngwiz just now with a 15%(a4+,kj+,33=) opening range for villian calling only top (1010+,ak) and a 5%(aq+,99+) range for the 3bettor and it is only call for qq+. JJ is about a 1% of the prizepool mistake in calling.

From earlier in the thread.