What's the best move here?

[Tuffster]

Final table of the Blonde $5 f/o, 472 runners, 5 remain, blinds 5k/10k

UTG has been very solid, has shown down good hands and hasn't been tricky, raises with both steals and high pp's so v. hard to read, has 160k chips (3rd)

UTG raises to 40k, passes to me in the BB with 210k (2nd).

Holding 

What's the best move here? Given his play to this point, I'm finding it very difficult to put him on a range of hands, he's shown a couple of un-called raises (when 6/7 handed) one was QQ, the other 810s, most of the times he's been called or raised he's been able to win either by holding a good hand or out-playing post-flop, so I'm giving him a lot of respect here.

I reckon flat-calling is the worst thing here as I'm OOP on the flop, so it's either a) min raise, meaning he's pot committed to pot it all-in on the flop, b) raise all-in and hope it's a race. c) fold and give away 10k.

I reckon both a and b would result in an all-in pre-flop so might as well push myself.

I folded pre as an UTG raise for 25% of his stack even though only 5-handed implies he's happy to play for all his chips. At best I'm racing, at worst I'm the under-pair.

Should I be looking at this hand as an opportunity to win the tourney as if I take it down I'll have about 375k with the next player on 225k and therefore be in a great position to take it down, or is it an unnecessary gamble?

Yours views on this sort of situation would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers Peeps.

[AlexMartin]

looks like ideal stop and go territory to me. flat pre, jam not too terrible boards, like Q73, K92 etc is more optimal than flipping/dogging v a fairly tight range i assume. Risky, but fun

[Royal Flush]

errrr this is a shove, anything else is just spewing equity

[boldie]

Final table of the Blonde $5 f/o, 472 runners, 5 remain, blinds 5k/10k

UTG has been very solid, has shown down good hands and hasn't been tricky, raises with both steals and high pp's so v. hard to read, has 160k chips (3rd)

UTG raises to 40k, passes to me in the BB with 210k (2nd).

Holding 

What's the best move here? Given his play to this point, I'm finding it very difficult to put him on a range of hands, he's shown a couple of un-called raises (when 6/7 handed) one was QQ, the other 810s, most of the times he's been called or raised he's been able to win either by holding a good hand or out-playing post-flop, so I'm giving him a lot of respect here.

I reckon flat-calling is the worst thing here as I'm OOP on the flop, so it's either a) min raise, meaning he's pot committed to pot it all-in on the flop, b) raise all-in and hope it's a race. c) fold and give away 10k.

I reckon both a and b would result in an all-in pre-flop so might as well push myself.

I folded pre as an UTG raise for 25% of his stack even though only 5-handed implies he's happy to play for all his chips. At best I'm racing, at worst I'm the under-pair.

Should I be looking at this hand as an opportunity to win the tourney as if I take it down I'll have about 375k with the next player on 225k and therefore be in a great position to take it down, or is it an unnecessary gamble?

Yours views on this sort of situation would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers Peeps.

I either shove or fold here...most likely shove and find myself cursing as he calls with a marginal hand like KQ off suit and hits

[TheChipPrince]

Firstly, i like the way youve written the question, explains everything we need to know, and what your thinking about your options...

I dont think we can fold here, not 5 handed...  I would only flat call knowing i'm pushing virtually any flop as a deceptive move, but more than likely they all go in pre-flop...

[action man]

"WHAT IS THE BEST MOVE HERE"

depends really. If you like money you shove. If you have fallen out with your money you flat or fold.

[action man]

Final table of the Blonde $5 f/o, 472 runners, 5 remain, blinds 5k/10k

UTG has been very solid, has shown down good hands and hasn't been tricky, raises with both steals and high pp's so v. hard to read, has 160k chips (3rd)

UTG raises to 40k, passes to me in the BB with 210k (2nd).

Holding 

What's the best move here? Given his play to this point, I'm finding it very difficult to put him on a range of hands, he's shown a couple of un-called raises (when 6/7 handed) one was QQ, the other 810s, most of the times he's been called or raised he's been able to win either by holding a good hand or out-playing post-flop, so I'm giving him a lot of respect here.

I reckon flat-calling is the worst thing here as I'm OOP on the flop, so it's either a) min raise, meaning he's pot committed to pot it all-in on the flop, b) raise all-in and hope it's a race. c) fold and give away 10k.

I reckon both a and b would result in an all-in pre-flop so might as well push myself.

I folded pre as an UTG raise for 25% of his stack even though only 5-handed implies he's happy to play for all his chips. At best I'm racing, at worst I'm the under-pair.

Should I be looking at this hand as an opportunity to win the tourney as if I take it down I'll have about 375k with the next player on 225k and therefore be in a great position to take it down, or is it an unnecessary gamble?

Yours views on this sort of situation would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers Peeps.

why do players always have this mentality?  This sort of paranoia makes mtt players on a whole really exploitable. You say he say shown 8Ts after him raising pre, therefore his range is probably almost any2 here. Your 88 plays very well against that range.
   Also on ipoker without running antes people are more willing to raise/fold with  less than 15bb. even more so in $5 mtt. Snap shove FTMFW

[booder]

"WHAT IS THE BEST MOVE HERE"

depends really. If you like money you shove. If you have fallen out with your money you flat or fold.

FIGJAM

[AlexMartin]

errrr this is a shove, anything else is just spewing equity

why shove>sng w this stack. Assuming hero wont bottle it. zero FE pre, some post some of the time. We obv arent folding, but v racing ranges i think my play beats yours.

[Tuffster]

Thanks for the comments guys, but I'm finding it hard to understand why the view is that the shove is so ++++EV as everyone seems to indicate.

Folding, I lose 5% of my stack, which can easily be regained with a steal myself. Shoving, I'm risking (basically) my entire tournament on a coin-flip (at best). I'm getting 50/50 on my money, so I want to be at least 50/50 to win in order to take this bet. Surely that makes sense in odds terms.

If I'm either, a) Racing, I'm marginally ahead so odds wise it's a good call or; b) 7/1 underdog which odds wise is a very bad thing.

Some of the phrases used such as "spewing equity" and "depends really. If you like money you shove. If you have fallen out with your money you flat or fold" seem to indicate that a shove here is the best move over the course of time, however, given the stats, I can't see how this is ++++EV. I can't see it being more than 52/48 in my favour.

I fully understand that the guy is playing A2C and I'm pretty sure I'm ahead, but I know that with 25% of his stack in, I have no fold equity. I would much rather be pushing and stealing than calling and gambling.

My point is why risk everything calling-off in a marginal situation when given the stack sizes (av 20BB) there is still room for some play here. What is so wrong in looking for a 60/40 situation to shove, surely this will end up in a higher ROI over the course?

Cheers guys.

As many people have said before, Poker is a game of decisions and pushing people to make bad decisions. I would much rather be putting those decisions on other people by pushing myself (with fold equity) than calling off and just hoping the Gods will be good to me.

[Royal Flush]

Thanks for the comments guys, but I'm finding it hard to understand why the view is that the shove is so ++++EV as everyone seems to indicate.

Folding, I lose 5% of my stack, which can easily be regained with a steal myself. Shoving, I'm risking (basically) my entire tournament on a coin-flip (at best). I'm getting 50/50 on my money, so I want to be at least 50/50 to win in order to take this bet. Surely that makes sense in odds terms.

If I'm either, a) Racing, I'm marginally ahead so odds wise it's a good call or; b) 7/1 underdog which odds wise is a very bad thing.

Some of the phrases used such as "spewing equity" and "depends really. If you like money you shove. If you have fallen out with your money you flat or fold" seem to indicate that a shove here is the best move over the course of time, however, given the stats, I can't see how this is ++++EV. I can't see it being more than 52/48 in my favour.

I fully understand that the guy is playing A2C and I'm pretty sure I'm ahead, but I know that with 25% of his stack in, I have no fold equity. I would much rather be pushing and stealing than calling and gambling.

My point is why risk everything calling-off in a marginal situation when given the stack sizes (av 20BB) there is still room for some play here. What is so wrong in looking for a 60/40 situation to shove, surely this will end up in a higher ROI over the course?

Cheers guys.

As many people have said before, Poker is a game of decisions and pushing people to make bad decisions. I would much rather be putting those decisions on other people by pushing myself (with fold equity) than calling off and just hoping the Gods will be good to me.

This post just put me on uber tilt.

Am going to wait at least 1hr before replying to avoid a forum ban.

[TheChipPrince]

This post just put me on uber tilt.

Am going to wait at least 1hr before replying to avoid a forum ban.

lol, quality

[Tuffster]

This post just put me on uber tilt.

Am going to wait at least 1hr before replying to avoid a forum ban.

I'm sorry if I've said something you that you have found offensive here. I'm still a novice at this game and am trying to learn.

So I'm sorry if what I've said is a load of ill-conceived tripe, but the question I asked is still a valid one. If I am wrong, can someone tell me why so that I can learn.

I'm part of Blonde because I enjoy the jovial banter and the willingness of (much) better players to help teach newbies and novices like myself. If I've got this idea wrong then I'll gladly feck off and not come back.

[Suited_Jock]

Thanks for the comments guys, but I'm finding it hard to understand why the view is that the shove is so ++++EV as everyone seems to indicate.

Folding, I lose 5% of my stack, which can easily be regained with a steal myself. Shoving, I'm risking (basically) my entire tournament on a coin-flip (at best). I'm getting 50/50 on my money, so I want to be at least 50/50 to win in order to take this bet. Surely that makes sense in odds terms.

If I'm either, a) Racing, I'm marginally ahead so odds wise it's a good call or; b) 7/1 underdog which odds wise is a very bad thing.

Some of the phrases used such as "spewing equity" and "depends really. If you like money you shove. If you have fallen out with your money you flat or fold" seem to indicate that a shove here is the best move over the course of time, however, given the stats, I can't see how this is ++++EV. I can't see it being more than 52/48 in my favour.

I fully understand that the guy is playing A2C and I'm pretty sure I'm ahead, but I know that with 25% of his stack in, I have no fold equity. I would much rather be pushing and stealing than calling and gambling.

My point is why risk everything calling-off in a marginal situation when given the stack sizes (av 20BB) there is still room for some play here. What is so wrong in looking for a 60/40 situation to shove, surely this will end up in a higher ROI over the course?

Cheers guys.

As many people have said before, Poker is a game of decisions and pushing people to make bad decisions. I would much rather be putting those decisions on other people by pushing myself (with fold equity) than calling off and just hoping the Gods will be good to me.

This post just put me on uber tilt.

Am going to wait at least 1hr before replying to avoid a forum ban.

[boldie]

This post just put me on uber tilt.

Am going to wait at least 1hr before replying to avoid a forum ban.

lol, quality