What would be your ruling....

[tonysaint]

Played last night (26th July) at the G Casino THANET ( RAMSGATE to the rest of us ) in a £250 Freezeout, for which the first prize was a car.

Three tables left and the in full swing ( Why do they do that on "MAIN EVENT" nights ? ) and the hand happened....

I am on the button, and the small blind is a tight player and the BB mega tight - I had seen her play three hands in about 2 hours ( QQ, QQ and AQ ), and I am getting low on chips. The dealer is collecting cards as players pass and I check my cards and find AJ. The player before me passes, there are only the blinds in the middle,  so I look again and announce all in.

Immediately, the player two to my RIGHT turns over his cards emphatically, showing QQ !

I say "whats going on" ?
" I said all in before you " he says. ( Not that I heard !)
But, I say, where are your chips ? ( As there was nothing but the Blinds over the action line )

The Blinds have yet to act...

If I asked you for a ruling, what would it be ?

P.S. He may have said all in, but I did not hear it above the and I am certain the dealer said nothing during the course of this. The other factor is that the player was the "sitting forward with hands on table" type - I could not see that he had cards, but in the abscence of any chips over the action line...

[ChipRich]

Lol, live misclicks.

This happened to me at DTD once. 21 left. And i moved in on BB from the SB with A3. Just taking the blinds obv.

Then i get told that UTG had moved in, he hadn't move his chips or anything and the dealer didnt announce he was all in when folded around to me.

UTG had AK, i lost. Was fuming but nothing you can do in that spot really. Just walk away, learn from your mistakes and dont do it again! I never have.

I guess it was my fault, but kinda the dealers i guess. As he didn't announce to me or anyone else that i could hear of.

[gatso]

both all-ins almost certainly stand here. presumably the dealer heard it as did the cut off as they passed and are not waiting for the player to their right to act.

the only way the original AI doesn't stand is if the dealer didn't hearwasn't aware of it in which case you and the player to your right should be ruled to have acted out of turn. in this case the other player has only to call the BB to ensure that action to you has not changed, your AI then goes and they can call.

either way you're both ending up AI

[boldie]

Three tables left and the in full swing ( Why do they do that on "MAIN EVENT" nights ? )

sigh, sigh and sigh again.

[Royal Flush]

Played last night (26th July) at the G Casino THANET ( RAMSGATE to the rest of us ) in a £250 Freezeout, for which the first prize was a car.

Three tables left and the in full swing ( Why do they do that on "MAIN EVENT" nights ? ) and the hand happened....

I am on the button, and the small blind is a tight player and the BB mega tight - I had seen her play three hands in about 2 hours ( QQ, QQ and AQ ), and I am getting low on chips. The dealer is collecting cards as players pass and I check my cards and find AJ. The player before me passes, there are only the blinds in the middle,  so I look again and announce all in.

Immediately, the player two to my RIGHT turns over his cards emphatically, showing QQ !

I say "whats going on" ?
" I said all in before you " he says. ( Not that I heard !)
But, I say, where are your chips ? ( As there was nothing but the Blinds over the action line )

The Blinds have yet to act...

If I asked you for a ruling, what would it be ?

P.S. He may have said all in, but I did not hear it above the and I am certain the dealer said nothing during the course of this. The other factor is that the player was the "sitting forward with hands on table" type - I could not see that he had cards, but in the abscence of any chips over the action line...

Shameless "i made the last 3 tables brag" imo

Unlucky Tony but i am pretty sure you have no recourse here, if the dealer heard him say all in then it stands, obviously it wouldn't have happened without the music but thats just shitty luck!

[MANTIS01]

Sorry, but I don't think this is bad luck. You say you didn't know the all-in player had cards. What happened when the action got to him? If he didn't fold, he has cards. The music is irrelevant because you could have seen this clearly if you were watching. Not paying attention to the action can lead to mistakes and there isn't a rule that can help you if you don't. Especially if you are thinking of moving all-in I would say watching the other players is pretty important.

[tonysaint]

Well, I did not ask for a ruling and if I had I would have expected my All In to stand. Regrettably the dealer was very inexperienced ( although a very nice lady ) and we had spent the night "helping" with the pots and various procedural matters. Yes, it is a rule that "players are responsible for knowing what is going on" but an experienced dealer makes so much difference and it isnt always as we would all like - and I suppose wont be whilst the attitude tends toward the "thats how it is". Notably all the staff in the cardroom ( and in the casino generally ) where amongst the most helpful and friendly I have experienced.

But back to the hand in question and two issues not yet addressed by the wise posters :

(1) Exposing the QQ before the SB and BB have acted. I saw something very similar happen at The Vic once - the hand stood, but the guy was taken off the table for a period after the hand... I was pleasantly suprised to see some action taken as POTENTIAL advantage had been gained and therefore there should be a downside.

(2) "Hands should always be in clear view". So often we are huddled around small tables and inevitably hands and arms are often obscuring the view - such is the environment of so may venues. However the tables at the G Casino Thanet are decent large tables that took 10 comfortably, and therefore the "congestion" excuse is less applicable.  So - do we all accept that this is another "rule" that doesnt actually matter ?


I am over the hand and, like all you vastly experienced chaps, it'll now be in my lessons learnt box. Not sure that I'll ever get used to the fact that some rules are rules and other rules are (potentially) tactical opportunities.



 

[MANTIS01]

The rules inconsistency is a source of frustration for many a poker player. The sooner there are standard and universally accepted rules the better imo. In the meantime I still recommend watching the action. During The Open some of the golfers were complaining that conditions were unfair and yet the conditions were the same for everyone. The player that handled the conditions best won. 

[portfolio]

Well, I did not ask for a ruling and if I had I would have expected my All In to stand. Regrettably the dealer was very inexperienced ( although a very nice lady ) and we had spent the night "helping" with the pots and various procedural matters. Yes, it is a rule that "players are responsible for knowing what is going on" but an experienced dealer makes so much difference and it isnt always as we would all like - and I suppose wont be whilst the attitude tends toward the "thats how it is". Notably all the staff in the cardroom ( and in the casino generally ) where amongst the most helpful and friendly I have experienced.

But back to the hand in question and two issues not yet addressed by the wise posters :

(1) Exposing the QQ before the SB and BB have acted. I saw something very similar happen at The Vic once - the hand stood, but the guy was taken off the table for a period after the hand... I was pleasantly suprised to see some action taken as POTENTIAL advantage had been gained and therefore there should be a downside.

(2) "Hands should always be in clear view". So often we are huddled around small tables and inevitably hands and arms are often obscuring the view - such is the environment of so may venues. However the tables at the G Casino Thanet are decent large tables that took 10 comfortably, and therefore the "congestion" excuse is less applicable.  So - do we all accept that this is another "rule" that doesnt actually matter ?


I am over the hand and, like all you vastly experienced chaps, it'll now be in my lessons learnt box. Not sure that I'll ever get used to the fact that some rules are rules and other rules are (potentially) tactical opportunities.



 

glad your over it with lesson learned.

verbal  goes   chips speak    universal(almost)

however, by NOT requesting a ruling, you are allowing all future myths to be perpetuated and doing youself. and fellow players, a huge disservice.

gl