CHOPPING, please help me understand?? The Rookie

[TightEnd]

We are of course back to a subject much debated on here.....prize money structures are too steep encouraging deals early and chops with 3-4-5-6 players left

unless of course the money is not your prime motivation (you are rich, chasing ranking points, want the trophy, whatever it may be)


as for savers....stopped asking a while ago, though I did when inexperienced and getting my tournament entry cost back was soemthing I thought mattered,  and wouldn't berate anyone for saying no.

[mikkyT]

actually deals are barred full stop these days, if you do a saver now the person would have to be paid from another player or wait till the payout at the end. Casinos only pay the structure now.

Your casino maybe. Gala Riverboat pays out the deal that is struck. But then they are retarded and only pay three prizes.

[thetank]

Short handed play is not all luck. Blinds are huge but so are the mistakes made. Players fold when they shouldn't and sometimes call when they shouldn't. Both can be equally cataclismic(is that a word?) in the long run.

Any healthy stack, who can play a good game, agreeing to a deal is usually throwing money away.
Just talking about online poker here as not enough exp. to talk about the live game with any authority.

[redsimon]

I don't chop unless I'm short stack when I will chop. Consistency rules

[wsopin07]

ok , another chopping story from today! I am playing a $1,000 sng, winner takes the $10,000 main event seat. I have just busted from the $5,000 comp of the day and I get down to 3 players in this sng. Short stack asks for a saver, I say no thanks, he is out next hand. The "internet legend" Johhny Bax ( Cliff, won a wsop bracelet this year in 7 stud) has 11,000  chips, I have the other 29,000 and he says " lets make a deal". I say I will listen but I would lay 20-1 I wont make a deal. WE both have our bracelets on and he says " give me $4,000 and we will call it even. I dont reply, I act like he is not at the table, I ask the dealer why he is not dealing. Then " Bax " asks if ther is a problem and  I reply " NO".

I further tell him to stick his deal, his bracelet, his "reputation", and the millions he has won online UP HIS FXXXXX ASS!!!!!!!

So he just hit the ROOKIE at a bad moment?? fxxx the deals, fxxxxx the savers, fxxxx all the people that want poker to be a chop.

If I wanted to play a game called CHOP I would go to the meat market. Sorry to ramble but I just cant take it anymore.

PS  / he did win one hand heads up, and only 1, it was over before it started, sorry the great Mr. Bax, so fxxxx sorry, if you are that good and that rich it should not matter you got nothing? 

[wsopin07]

Short handed play is not all luck. Blinds are huge but so are the mistakes made. Players fold when they shouldn't and sometimes call when they shouldn't. Both can be equally cataclismic(is that a word?) in the long run.

Any healthy stack, who can play a good game, agreeing to a deal is usually throwing money away.
Just talking about online poker here as not enough exp. to talk about the live game with any authority.

thank you, there are players out there that see the value in playing the game until the end, please help spread the word, play to a real winnere, pleae

[Pontecarlo]

i agree with you rookie in a lot of what you said ,but accoasionally they are ok  in certain circumstance - eg other week i was playing for a seat in the aussie millions , we were down to the last three all roughly equal stacked but with only one 10k package to play for , a mate was in the last 3 and he e mailed me during the game with a proposal - any one of us win and we refund the other ones stake (£270) plus a 10% of money out there - there was a 1k spending money prize included in the package  so i agreed
it didnt make me play any different and we took each other on in the normal way , so i didnt see anything wrong with his idea - well apart from the fact that we finished 2nd and 3rd respectively and both got naf all anyway 

[AlrightJack]

Brian, I dislike it when people who refuse deals get lambasted by the rest of the players, but why be rude to people simply because they proposed one?

[M3boy]

Brian, I dislike people who refuse deals being lambasted by the rest of the players, but why be rude to people simply because they proposed one?

I am another who does not deal. (well one time in Luton £100, the blinds were HUGE and 5 of us left. I was 2nd in chips and the deal suggested, I got MORE than 2nd place would get, and only a little of 1st and we were VERY near the point of it being decided on chip stacks anyway)

I will say this,, on the times I have refused to deal (politely IMO) I am the one who has faced the backlash and harrassement of the other players that want a deal. This is also not right.

When I play a MTT, and have invested a great deal of time to get to the final table, I am not wimping out for a deal. I WANT TO WIN THE DAMN THING!!!!

By all means ask, but the answer will be "NO"

[wsopin07]

Brian, I dislike it when people who refuse deals get lambasted by the rest of the players, but why be rude to people simply because they proposed one?

I dont want to be rude if it is Presented right, but it almost never is, it also seems that it is almost always one sided like the Bax guy. Give him 40% when he has 25% of the chips???
He says " you know the short stack always gets a little more". I don t think so, the short stack should get a little less, after all they have less so they deserve less!!!!!!! 

[wsopin07]

Brian, I dislike people who refuse deals being lambasted by the rest of the players, but why be rude to people simply because they proposed one?

I am another who does not deal. (well one time in Luton £100, the blinds were HUGE and 5 of us left. I was 2nd in chips and the deal suggested, I got MORE than 2nd place would get, and only a little of 1st and we were VERY near the point of it being decided on chip stacks anyway)

I will say this,, on the times I have refused to deal (politely IMO) I am the one who has faced the backlash and harrassement of the other players that want a deal. This is also not right.

When I play a MTT, and have invested a great deal of time to get to the final table, I am not wimping out for a deal. I WANT TO WIN THE DAMN THING!!!!

By all means ask, but the answer will be "NO"

well said, I like it, Thanks

[wsopin07]

Yet another "CHOPPING" story, this one is really crazy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

$200 w/ rebuys, 259 runners, top 10 get $10,000 seat in the WPT main event, 11th gets $5,900, 12th Gets $3,800

There are 4-5 very short stacks, blinds are 8k 16k, short stacks have about 30k-40k!!!!!!!!

Two players w/ about 60k each decide they will take 11th and 12th $$$$$$ and divide it! What?? WOOOWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
These guys could not play the main event, could not sell or transfer the seat, but did not ask the shorter stacks to kick anything in, not really a chop, oh well!!!!!!!

I was involved, I only had 35k left, so did I really chop??? I said OK, maybe I broke my own rule? Well I guess now I can never say I have NEVER choped.

Things are running good, the 5th $10,000 seat I have won in 6 days, 4 at Foxwoods (live) and my WPT seat for the Bahamas on Poker Stars, Wont Mr. John Gale be happy to see me there as he gets ready to defend his title?

[AdamM]

can I have one

[dazla996]

yeah me too. when i win ill give you 80% good deal?

[robyong]

Some people are in a strong enough financial position and do not need to chop, they play for the glory.

I don't mind doing a deal if it helps someone out. This may seem a bit soft, but I don't see any halm in keeping things flexible and doing a guy a favour. In one final last year , I was chip leader and a guy took be aside at the break and showed me his credit card statement, he was really desperate, so I did a deal with him.

In another situation I was 3 way and chip leader, and the 2 guys wanted to do a deal, i refused, as they were wel known players who play big buy-in events, I busted out 3rd, typical, and they chopped it immediatley!

I guess my point is that its up to the people left in what they do, if they all agree, I don't have a problem with any deals that get done. Deals will never be taken out of Poker, so we need to just live with them.

I know a well known 2 tennis pros who agreed to chop the prize money before a final, it happens everywhere, not just poker. Money is important to a lot of people so THIS is the reason why people CHOP.