WSOP Bubble

[GlasgowBandit]

Hate being in the majority but yeah I shove both!

[ChipRich]

Yep, shoving both 100%

Playing to win the torn.

[  ] wud care about the bubble.

[Royal Flush]

"Yeah seriously.  Save your $5k for a smaller tournament if you're considering folding these"

That's a pretty unhelpful comment and totally unconstructive.  I probably won't post on these boards again as it's just not worth the effort with some of the people on here.

I was merely trying to get a discussion on whether the payout structure of a tournament should dictate how you play the bubble.  Never mind.    

Its the most helpful comment anyone has made, clearly by playing in a $5k event you played badly, its not a good idea to raise your stakes and then play worse than usual, unless you are super rich

[Hairydude]

really really tough spot-with it costing 5k a round I think you probably have to shove but I dont think folding is too bad either-what are we getting called with that we're beating- AK, AQsuited maybe???you obviously have a strong hand pushing from UTG so to get called with oppo's having a large chunk at stake-they need to be superstrong IMO.  I like Sunday8PM am a ladderer  (I realise every book says strong agression and taking shots is the way to go for the wins and 1st place but I think tournament survival is understated at times too)

[portfolio]

Are these replies levels?

Shove Shove and they aren't even close.

totally agree.

ps  if 5k is above your bankroll, apply above on the staking board for 2009

[MANTIS01]

The very serious problem with survival mode is that it is a massively exploitable strat. It is much better to see surviving as doing what it takes to stay out of the mess going on below you. I would rate my chances to survive much better if I had my survival mode oppos outchipped rather than being the surviving shorty myself. Maintaining a shortstack means your surival is less likely rather than more likely. If you don't take your good chances to survive then you are actually swapping survival for life support. If you don't push a decent stack with A-K you will often find yourself pushing half that amount with A-8 a little while later. Every hand you fold you loose chips and f/e, doing nothing while this happens is not really surviving.

[Hairydude]

The very serious problem with survival mode is that it is a massively exploitable strat. It is much better to see surviving as doing what it takes to stay out of the mess going on below you. I would rate my chances to survive much better if I had my survival mode oppos outchipped rather than being the surviving shorty myself. Maintaining a shortstack means your surival is less likely rather than more likely. If you don't take your good chances to survive then you are actually swapping survival for life support. If you don't push a decent stack with A-K you will often find yourself pushing half that amount with A-8 a little while later. Every hand you fold you loose chips and f/e, doing nothing while this happens is not really surviving.

yes I agree with your points-but I was actually talking about the 99 hand when you are UTG- the AK is a more straightforward shove for me- the initial raiser is a bullying large stack and could have a wide range but the 99 hand to me is a little bit more of a decision- you have the whole table behind you to act! although your points are relavent to both situations- folding UTG is expected unless you have a V.Good hand(which this is) so your not exactly giving away that your in survival mode by folding.  like I said 9 times out of 10 I probably shove but I reckon there is definately a case for folding this 9's UTG also given the situation.

[MANTIS01]

I am happier with the A-K situation myself. UTG raise-re-raise all-in gets the blinds turbo-mucking blind and so it's much more likely that if the chips go in it's because UTG makes a mistake and calls light. When pushing with 9-9 it's unlikely that if the chips go in someone will have made a mistake. So the A-K is going to be easier to win if you are called. If I didn't have enough for a steak in my pocket I might fold the nines myself. The microstack-factor is very distracting at this point imo. If I'm ss of the event though they are fist-pump shoved.

[Bertpup]

Surely stalling for max time to see if anyone busted would be your first move!!

[DungBeetle]

"clearly by playing in a $5k event you played badly"

Cheers Royal Flush - like I said - waste of time posting on here.  I play for 2 days and post two scenarios which I still think are marginal near the bubble and get this sort of response.  I might add when were deep stacked early on I busted 2 big names, but I'm sure you don't give a monkeys about that and stick the needle in, rather than making more constructive points like the kind made by Mantis. 

Anyhow, I'm unregistering from blonde now as I'd rather post on a more constructive community, so feel free to slag me off till your heart's content.....

[boldie]

"clearly by playing in a $5k event you played badly"

Cheers Royal Flush - like I said - waste of time posting on here.  I play for 2 days and post two scenarios which I still think are marginal near the bubble and get this sort of response.  I might add when were deep stacked early on I busted 2 big names, but I'm sure you don't give a monkeys about that and stick the needle in, rather than making more constructive points like the kind made by Mantis. 

Anyhow, I'm unregistering from blonde now as I'd rather post on a more constructive community, so feel free to slag me off till your heart's content.....

If you consider or atleast think about what Flushy is actually saying, I am sure you'd appreciate the comment.

p.s. Nobody cares about the names you bust really..it doesn't matter who you bust, all that matters is that you get someone's, anyone's, chips.

[TheChipPrince]

Did you cash?

[DungBeetle]

Sigh - I can't even work out how to unregister.

Of course I await a torrent of abuse for critisizing one of the members of the clique, Boldie at the head of the queue of course.  And I have considered what Flushy has said - and it's a valid questiom - does playing a tournament above your normal buy in make you play too timidly?  I don't have an issue with the point - it's the condescending manner in which it was made.

[DungBeetle]

yes I cashed - I folded both the hands described and came somewhere in the 40s in the end.

My timidity was partly because the previous year I was near the bubble with an above average stack and busted out.  I shoved over a serial raiser with essentially a bluff - the guy thought for 5 minutes, said "lets gamble" and called with 2c4c and I was gone.

[TheChipPrince]

yes I cashed - I folded both the hands described and came somewhere in the 40s in the end.

My timidity was partly because the previous year I was near the bubble with an above average stack and busted out.  I shoved over a serial raiser with essentially a bluff - the guy thought for 5 minutes, said "lets gamble" and called with 2c4c and I was gone.

N1, but we need 50p from your winnings for this bad beat story!