Drugs in poker

[ShatnerPants]

...
The advantages of living in a democracy.  Do as you're told and shut up.  Forget about freedom of choice.
...

How do work that out as a connection to democracy?

Just my intrepretation on how Blair and Brown define democracy.

Hopefuly a smidge of irony a day keeps sanity at bay.

[booder]

There is a lot if misinformation about cannabis and its affects and some of it is getting parrotted on this thread. I loled at the suggestion that 'skunk' is almost pure THC. For starters, skunk is only one strain amongst hundreds of different varieties, but it has been latched onto by the paranoid UK media to describe any of the newer strains. Therefore, any discussion of the drug that refers to 'skunk cannabis' is likely to be misinformed.

The strongest strains have 18-26% THC, most are around 13-15%. 20 years ago the average was around 6-8%, but then, people probably used to smoke in larger quantities to get a stronger affect. Hashish is resin that is made from cannabis plant, whereas weed, grass or any other name you choose to give it are the unprocessed flowers of the plant. To describe hashish as a giving a more happy affect because it is weaker is also complete rubbish. Hash can actually be the strongest form of the drug, but it is taken in much lower quantities than the flowers are.

No drug is safe, but cannabis has had an unduly bad press. Much much safer than both tobacco and alchohol, IMO.

good post sir

[WYSINWYG]

No drug is safe, but cannabis has had an unduly bad press. Much much safer than both tobacco and alchohol, IMO.

Thanks for your post, you seem to know a lot about it. I'm unsure what the last bit means though, I've seen it elsewhere too. Safer for whom? For me? For the majority?
We could look at it this way: examine total diseases and deaths caused by tobacco and alcohol, then compare them to cannabis/mj/all its forms. Looking at it this way, overall, for the population, tobacco and alcohol are more problematic.
But for ME, as the responsible user, I know that I can take alcohol in moderation and it will not damage me. It may well do me good. But I know that I can take cannabis/etc and it could well do me harm. We're talking about scientific studies here. I know some science (eg mmr) turns out to be balony, but we're talking multiple studies, longitudinal studies, peer-reviewed journals, top UK medical journals, government medical officers, and SCIENCE (as in you get a certain number of subjects, you match them, you isolate in groups, you perform psychological tests that everyone is agreed upon, you show your results within an accepted statistical probability, and then you use reason to explain the meaning of your findings in the context of your study). These are not people with an agenda: the only merit in their actions is being able to demonstrate why their findings are as objective as possible. Repeatedly, these people are finding *causal* links between cannabis use and serious mental illness. Schizophrenia is no walk in the park. It's not in the same ballpark as a bad case of the DTs or emphesema. You may lose your mind. You may be sectioned. You may never work. You may hear and see things that are not there.
If someone offers you drugs, just say 'My arse!'

[Hairydude]

There is a lot if misinformation about cannabis and its affects and some of it is getting parrotted on this thread. I loled at the suggestion that 'skunk' is almost pure THC. For starters, skunk is only one strain amongst hundreds of different varieties, but it has been latched onto by the paranoid UK media to describe any of the newer strains. Therefore, any discussion of the drug that refers to 'skunk cannabis' is likely to be misinformed.

The strongest strains have 18-26% THC, most are around 13-15%. 20 years ago the average was around 6-8%, but then, people probably used to smoke in larger quantities to get a stronger affect. Hashish is resin that is made from cannabis plant, whereas weed, grass or any other name you choose to give it are the unprocessed flowers of the plant. To describe hashish as a giving a more happy affect because it is weaker is also complete rubbish. Hash can actually be the strongest form of the drug, but it is taken in much lower quantities than the flowers are.

No drug is safe, but cannabis has had an unduly bad press. Much much safer than both tobacco and alchohol, IMO.

But at the same time Alcohol and Tobacco are used massively more than Cannabis- if Cannabis was as widespread I'd reckon you'd get just as many health problems, mental or physical, as with Alcohol or tobacco ( I read that cannabis actually increases your chances of cancer if mixed with tobacco-more so than that of tobacco on its own)

I'm on the "everything in moderation" train- you eat too much chocolate you get fat, you drink too much alcohol you get liver damage, you smoke to much you get lung cancer- this doesnt apply to everyone but in general thats the shit storm by living life to excess-it all catches up with you.

[boldie]

No drug is safe, but cannabis has had an unduly bad press. Much much safer than both tobacco and alchohol, IMO.

Thanks for your post, you seem to know a lot about it. I'm unsure what the last bit means though, I've seen it elsewhere too. Safer for whom? For me? For the majority?
We could look at it this way: examine total diseases and deaths caused by tobacco and alcohol, then compare them to cannabis/mj/all its forms. Looking at it this way, overall, for the population, tobacco and alcohol are more problematic.
But for ME, as the responsible user, I know that I can take alcohol in moderation and it will not damage me. It may well do me good. But I know that I can take cannabis/etc and it could well do me harm. We're talking about scientific studies here. I know some science (eg mmr) turns out to be balony, but we're talking multiple studies, longitudinal studies, peer-reviewed journals, top UK medical journals, government medical officers, and SCIENCE (as in you get a certain number of subjects, you match them, you isolate in groups, you perform psychological tests that everyone is agreed upon, you show your results within an accepted statistical probability, and then you use reason to explain the meaning of your findings in the context of your study). These are not people with an agenda: the only merit in their actions is being able to demonstrate why their findings are as objective as possible. Repeatedly, these people are finding *causal* links between cannabis use and serious mental illness. Schizophrenia is no walk in the park. It's not in the same ballpark as a bad case of the DTs or emphesema. You may lose your mind. You may be sectioned. You may never work. You may hear and see things that are not there.
If someone offers you drugs, just say 'My arse!'

No serious scientific study has ever claimed that a little use of Weed will cause you to get sanctioned or lose your mind and start to become paranoid. You can't say "I enjoy alcohol responsibly and therefore it's fine" but then say "If I were to use weed in moderation responsibly I will go nuts" There has, to my knowledge, never been any evidence of this.


Moderation and responsible use is always key with these things.

[WYSINWYG]

No drug is safe, but cannabis has had an unduly bad press. Much much safer than both tobacco and alchohol, IMO.

Thanks for your post, you seem to know a lot about it. I'm unsure what the last bit means though, I've seen it elsewhere too. Safer for whom? For me? For the majority?
We could look at it this way: examine total diseases and deaths caused by tobacco and alcohol, then compare them to cannabis/mj/all its forms. Looking at it this way, overall, for the population, tobacco and alcohol are more problematic.
But for ME, as the responsible user, I know that I can take alcohol in moderation and it will not damage me. It may well do me good. But I know that I can take cannabis/etc and it could well do me harm. We're talking about scientific studies here. I know some science (eg mmr) turns out to be balony, but we're talking multiple studies, longitudinal studies, peer-reviewed journals, top UK medical journals, government medical officers, and SCIENCE (as in you get a certain number of subjects, you match them, you isolate in groups, you perform psychological tests that everyone is agreed upon, you show your results within an accepted statistical probability, and then you use reason to explain the meaning of your findings in the context of your study). These are not people with an agenda: the only merit in their actions is being able to demonstrate why their findings are as objective as possible. Repeatedly, these people are finding *causal* links between cannabis use and serious mental illness. Schizophrenia is no walk in the park. It's not in the same ballpark as a bad case of the DTs or emphesema. You may lose your mind. You may be sectioned. You may never work. You may hear and see things that are not there.
If someone offers you drugs, just say 'My arse!'

No serious scientific study has ever claimed that a little use of Weed will cause you to get sanctioned or lose your mind and start to become paranoid. You can't say "I enjoy alcohol responsibly and therefore it's fine" but then say "If I were to use weed in moderation responsibly I will go nuts" There has, to my knowledge, never been any evidence of this.


Moderation and responsible use is always key with these things.

There have been serious scientific studies that show causal links between cannabis use and schizophrenia. If you know of a source that massively discredits these, please post.
As for schizophrenia, we do know for sure that in some forms of it (there are many):
[X] Loss of mind
[X] Paranoia
[X] Sectioning due to immediate threat to self or others or because doubts over whether user can be trusted to regularly self administer anti-psychotics.

There appears to be evidence that moderate use of alchohol does not carry long term health risks in most healthy individuals.
There does not appear to be evidence that moderation in the use of cannabis will preserve you from the aforementioned possible long term ill-effects.

[booder]

Click to see full-size image.

FTMFW

[ShatnerPants]

There is a lot if misinformation about cannabis and its affects and some of it is getting parrotted on this thread. I loled at the suggestion that 'skunk' is almost pure THC. For starters, skunk is only one strain amongst hundreds of different varieties, but it has been latched onto by the paranoid UK media to describe any of the newer strains. Therefore, any discussion of the drug that refers to 'skunk cannabis' is likely to be misinformed.

The strongest strains have 18-26% THC, most are around 13-15%. 20 years ago the average was around 6-8%, but then, people probably used to smoke in larger quantities to get a stronger affect. Hashish is resin that is made from cannabis plant, whereas weed, grass or any other name you choose to give it are the unprocessed flowers of the plant. To describe hashish as a giving a more happy affect because it is weaker is also complete rubbish. Hash can actually be the strongest form of the drug, but it is taken in much lower quantities than the flowers are.

No drug is safe, but cannabis has had an unduly bad press. Much much safer than both tobacco and alchohol, IMO.

Like I said earlier, I'm no expert, but I live in the real world, so I've seen what I've seen.

Skunk is, to my knowledge, grown indooors using the hydroponic systems that one sees on t'net.  And as such has a higher THC element than 'naturally' grown strains.  Ok so it's not 'pure' THC , but it is a much higher %  ( you suggest 2 - 3 times higher ).  Yes there are dozens of different skunk plants out there.  I've been told about different types, but that goes well beyond my understanding, or what I need to understand.

I'm using the term hash in an oversimplification, purely because I don't know a better term.  I'm trying to talk about the naturally ( outdoor ) grown plants, lower in THC, but higher in cannabides.  Which by the time it reaches the market comes as a little brown block. I don't think it's necessarily weaker, but I do believe it is less likely to cause the paranoic side-effects because of it's reduced THC / higher cannabide ratios.

The thing is, in this country it is much easier to get hold of skunk ( whatever 'brand' ) because it is grown in factories all over the country.  Whereas the resins are generally imported, which makes them less readily available, and more expensive.

I think talking about cannabis as a drug is an oversimplification.  It's how it is taken that is, in my mind, more important.

Drink a couple of pints a night, and it wont do you any harm.

Sounds reasonable ?  Well as long as thats a couple of pints of bitter, you're probably fine.  Switch that to scotch, and it becomes a slightly worse proposition.

[Hairydude]

My sister smoked cannabis for 15 years(probably on average once a week throughout these years-although in her excessive times every night) until the birth of her children which was why she decided to stop...good role model and all that. But she is perfectly sane and has the ideal life- 2.4 children, big house, good husband etc so I dont see where this evidence of mental illness comes in with her.

I agree prolonged use of the stuff probably will lead to mental illness in some indiviuals. I personally cant stand the stuff- I've tried it at parties/festivals etc but probably less than 10 times in all my years-just makes me feel like a zombie unable to talk. Did have one good time in amsterdam though where I thought everything was funny and had the munches- bought a Pizza, dropped it in the gutter, picked it up & brushed the grit off and continued munching away; but in general think its a crap feeling to have being stoned.

[boldie]

Again, it's a moderation thing. There is no link between casual Marijuana use and psychosis. There is a casual link...slight difference there.

[Jon MW]

...
There have been serious scientific studies that show causal links between cannabis use and schizophrenia. If you know of a source that massively discredits these, please post.
As for schizophrenia, we do know for sure that in some forms of it (there are many):
[X] Loss of mind
[X] Paranoia
[X] Sectioning due to immediate threat to self or others or because doubts over whether user can be trusted to regularly self administer anti-psychotics.

There appears to be evidence that moderate use of alchohol does not carry long term health risks in most healthy individuals.
There does not appear to be evidence that moderation in the use of cannabis will preserve you from the aforementioned possible long term ill-effects.

As far as I know every serious study showing a link between cannabis use and mental problems has used heavy use of cannabis as the condition of possible problems occurring.

The only studies which have linked moderate use to mental problems have either been of the variety where they looked at a group of people with mental problems which they believed could be linked to cannabis and found that a significant minority had used cannabis, or they have been of the nature of the MMS study - i.e. a doctor or two have said I've had half a dozen schizophrenia patients and half of them were occasional cannabis users.


EDIT: and as Boldie has just stated, even the good studies have only shown a weak correlation. i.e. its high enough to probably not be coincidence, but not high enough to show that it definitely isn't coincidence - in itself strengthening the argument that people who are prone to these conditions might have the risk heightened by prolonged and heavy usage.

[AlrightJack]

There is a lot if misinformation about cannabis and its affects and some of it is getting parrotted on this thread. I loled at the suggestion that 'skunk' is almost pure THC. For starters, skunk is only one strain amongst hundreds of different varieties, but it has been latched onto by the paranoid UK media to describe any of the newer strains. Therefore, any discussion of the drug that refers to 'skunk cannabis' is likely to be misinformed.

The strongest strains have 18-26% THC, most are around 13-15%. 20 years ago the average was around 6-8%, but then, people probably used to smoke in larger quantities to get a stronger affect. Hashish is resin that is made from cannabis plant, whereas weed, grass or any other name you choose to give it are the unprocessed flowers of the plant. To describe hashish as a giving a more happy affect because it is weaker is also complete rubbish. Hash can actually be the strongest form of the drug, but it is taken in much lower quantities than the flowers are.

No drug is safe, but cannabis has had an unduly bad press. Much much safer than both tobacco and alchohol, IMO.

Like I said earlier, I'm no expert, but I live in the real world, so I've seen what I've seen.

Skunk is, to my knowledge, grown indooors using the hydroponic systems that one sees on t'net.  And as such has a higher THC element than 'naturally' grown strains.  Ok so it's not 'pure' THC , but it is a much higher %  ( you suggest 2 - 3 times higher ).  Yes there are dozens of different skunk plants out there.  I've been told about different types, but that goes well beyond my understanding, or what I need to understand.

I'm using the term hash in an oversimplification, purely because I don't know a better term.  I'm trying to talk about the naturally ( outdoor ) grown plants, lower in THC, but higher in cannabides.  Which by the time it reaches the market comes as a little brown block. I don't think it's necessarily weaker, but I do believe it is less likely to cause the paranoic side-effects because of it's reduced THC / higher cannabide ratios.

The thing is, in this country it is much easier to get hold of skunk ( whatever 'brand' ) because it is grown in factories all over the country.  Whereas the resins are generally imported, which makes them less readily available, and more expensive.

I think talking about cannabis as a drug is an oversimplification.  It's how it is taken that is, in my mind, more important.

Drink a couple of pints a night, and it wont do you any harm.

Sounds reasonable ?  Well as long as thats a couple of pints of bitter, you're probably fine.  Switch that to scotch, and it becomes a slightly worse proposition.

Do you write for the Daily Mail. I suggest you find out even the most basic info about the plant you are talking about before you continue to spout about it. Wikipedia is not a bad starting point, but any search on the plant will do. To refer to naturally grown plants as 'hashish' shows complete and utter ignorance of the topic you seem to have such strong views about.

[WYSINWYG]

...
There have been serious scientific studies that show causal links between cannabis use and schizophrenia. If you know of a source that massively discredits these, please post.
As for schizophrenia, we do know for sure that in some forms of it (there are many):
[X] Loss of mind
[X] Paranoia
[X] Sectioning due to immediate threat to self or others or because doubts over whether user can be trusted to regularly self administer anti-psychotics.

There appears to be evidence that moderate use of alchohol does not carry long term health risks in most healthy individuals.
There does not appear to be evidence that moderation in the use of cannabis will preserve you from the aforementioned possible long term ill-effects.

As far as I know every serious study showing a link between cannabis use and mental problems has used heavy use of cannabis as the condition of possible problems occurring.

Moderate use   then?

[Jon MW]

...
There have been serious scientific studies that show causal links between cannabis use and schizophrenia. If you know of a source that massively discredits these, please post.
As for schizophrenia, we do know for sure that in some forms of it (there are many):
[X] Loss of mind
[X] Paranoia
[X] Sectioning due to immediate threat to self or others or because doubts over whether user can be trusted to regularly self administer anti-psychotics.

There appears to be evidence that moderate use of alchohol does not carry long term health risks in most healthy individuals.
There does not appear to be evidence that moderation in the use of cannabis will preserve you from the aforementioned possible long term ill-effects.

As far as I know every serious study showing a link between cannabis use and mental problems has used heavy use of cannabis as the condition of possible problems occurring.

Moderate use  then?

Moderation FTW

[WYSINWYG]

Scientists have found no causal link between drinking 2 pints of scotch and schizophrenia.

That's my evening sorted out then