Paired board versus big stack slag

[Rookie (Rodney)]

24o+

[PocketLady]

Lol

[AlexMartin]

1stly, this final table is fictional and has no real point.

I'm sitting here right now at the table and everyone is waiting for me to act but I can't do so til I've accumulated all the different opinions, please hurry, nearly calling clock.

fold, AJ is a bad hand postflop on a ridiculously dry board with 9bbs left.

[WYSINWYG]

1stly, this final table is fictional and has no real point.

I'm sitting here right now at the table and everyone is waiting for me to act but I can't do so til I've accumulated all the different opinions, please hurry, nearly calling clock.

fold, AJ is a bad hand postflop on a ridiculously dry board with 9bbs left.

............against a slag who has led out with a slags bet into a paired flop..........

[Royal Flush]

Maybe a pair or Ax, but I don't think he can call with less than Ace high really, but yeah get them in!

I think he can..

Why are we pushing them in now then pls? What reasoning behind it?

Because this situation is fairly marginal in terms of stack and pot size a) I think the big stack could possibly fold a better hand, b) even if he can't fold you want him to call with A10 or worse c) even if he does call with a small pair you have several outs with A high versus a small hole pair on that board.  If he calls with a big pair, wp gg.

And most importantly I think he could be making that bet with any two, so I'm not folding.

Still pushing pre though.

lolz levelling hard!!!

[PocketLady]

Sorry am I barking up the wrong tree here?  We want a LAG who is unlikely to have an 8 or an overpair to call us yes?  But we want to push so we are at least giving him a chance to pass, even if he doesn't take it. 

[LeKnave]

Sorry am I barking up the wrong tree here?  We want a LAG who is unlikely to have an 8 or an overpair to call us yes?  But we want to push so we are at least giving him a chance to pass, even if he doesn't take it. 

if we jam the flop its because we think our hand beats his range, not that we are trying to make him pass.  theres just no way hes going to muck to our shove with his stack size in comparison to ours.

[Royal Flush]

Sorry am I barking up the wrong tree here?  We want a LAG who is unlikely to have an 8 or an overpair to call us yes?  But we want to push so we are at least giving him a chance to pass, even if he doesn't take it. 

We don't want him to pass, he is never folding better, we want them to re-raise us pre. I assume you said the opposite to all these as a joke, i may have been wrong.

[boldie]

Sorry am I barking up the wrong tree here?  We want a LAG who is unlikely to have an 8 or an overpair to call us yes?  But we want to push so we are at least giving him a chance to pass, even if he doesn't take it. 

if we jam the flop its because we think our hand beats his range, not that we are trying to make him pass.  theres just no way hes going to muck to our shove with his stack size in comparison to ours.

[PocketLady]

No and as discussed he probably won't pass.  I looked at the chip stacks wrong when I made my first post.  I'm just nit picking here really, but when I say that we are giving him a chance to pass I mean we are pushing rather than just waiting for him to put us all in, not that him passing is likely, he just has the option.

we want them to re-raise us pre.

 
I'm not raising to 60k pre anyway, I'm pushing.  Honestly this is something that I've never understood, maybe someone can help me out.  I agree with what has been said about post flop, money needs to go in, but from my perspective I can find far better spots to get my money in pre than with AJ.  I'm not referring to shoving because that's different.  But to raise someone with AJ preflop in the hope that I get reraised just doesn't make sense to me.  I mean yes against a lag hopefully I'll end up against someone gambling with a small pair or KQ, but even then I'm only 60/40 at best.  Obviously it depends on whether I'm going for the win for just trying to hang on a few more places, but there is a fine line between necessary gambling for the win, and unnecessary gambling when there are better spots.  I can easily stay alive for a while longer by picking up the blinds until I find a better situation/hand.  Anyone care to enlighten me on their views about this?  

[PocketLady]

Please be aware that you are speaking to a girl and we are notoriously tight

[boldie]

No and as discussed he probably won't pass.  I looked at the chip stacks wrong when I made my first post.  I'm just nit picking here really, but when I say that we are giving him a chance to pass I mean we are pushing rather than just waiting for him to put us all in, not that him passing is likely, he just has the option.

we want them to re-raise us pre.

 
I'm not raising to 60k pre anyway, I'm pushing.  Honestly this is something that I've never understood, maybe someone can help me out.  I agree with what has been said about post flop, money needs to go in, but from my perspective I can find far better spots to get my money in pre than with AJ.  I'm not referring to shoving because that's different.  But to raise someone with AJ preflop in the hope that I get reraised just doesn't make sense to me.  I mean yes against a lag hopefully I'll end up against someone gambling with a small pair or KQ, but even then I'm only 60/40 at best.  Obviously it depends on whether I'm going for the win for just trying to hang on a few more places, but there is a fine line between necessary gambling for the win, and unnecessary gambling when there are better spots.  I can easily stay alive for a while longer by picking up the blinds until I find a better situation/hand.  Anyone care to enlighten me on their views about this?  

3 handed you can't.

[PocketLady]

Ooops, seem to have missed that major point.  No wonder everyone thought I was mad...As well as not being able to play poker it turns out girls can't read either.  I'm resisting the urge to go back and delete all of my posts now...lol.

[WYSINWYG]

The dynamic created by all 3 stack sizes make it an ugly general situation for you. Taking your chances that AJ is ahead (and that means inducing a reraise from a ginormous stacked slag) is very likely better than all the other spots you're likely to find yourself in, most likely precipitated by a medium stack who can put you to the test, fail, and still stay alive.

I generally baulk at the all in shove pre here, I'm trying to figure out why

My shove gets called by a much better hand from ANOther or a better hand from BigStack (vs upside, which is 10 percent increase in stacksize, 30K chips :/ :/ )
My standard 3x reraise can scare squeezed-ANOther and elicit a bullying shove by BigStack with many worse hands.

[LeKnave]

The dynamic created by all 3 stack sizes make it an ugly situation for you. Taking your chances that AJ is ahead (and that means inducing a reraise from a ginormous stacked slag) is very likely better than all the other spots you're likely to find yourself in, most likely precipitated by a medium stack who can put you to the test, fail, and still stay alive.

I generally baulk at the all in shove pre here, I'm trying to figure out why

My shove gets called by a much better hand from ANOther or a better hand from BigStack (vs upside, which is 10 percent increase in stacksize, 30K chips :/ :/ )
My standard 3x reraise can scare squeezed-ANOther and elicit a bullying shove by BigStack with many worse hands.

A guy with 2M chips isnt just going to call a 12x bb shove for 10% of his stack with AQ+