The Grosvenor Grand Prix is back!

[ariston]

ok lets work on a 200k prizepool- they will be taking 10k in "rake" and adding 25k. A better way of doing this PR wise wouldve been to add 15k and charge no rake but the bean counters obviously didnt want to do this. Its still another "added money" event. As for gats thinking grosvenor do nothing for poker in the UK I would point him to the figures present at the GUKPT festivals- where else can you play on a monthly basis for a 300k+ prizepool? They add money to events and still get slated- they really can't win can they?

[AndrewT]

ok lets work on a 200k prizepool- they will be taking 10k in "rake" and adding 25k. A better way of doing this PR wise wouldve been to add 15k and charge no rake but the bean counters obviously didnt want to do this. Its still another "added money" event. As for gats thinking grosvenor do nothing for poker in the UK I would point him to the figures present at the GUKPT festivals- where else can you play on a monthly basis for a 300k+ prizepool? They add money to events and still get slated- they really can't win can they?

Not raking rebuys is a very very easy way not to get slated.

I think Gatso's point was that just because Grosvenor have done good stuff for poker in the UK in the past doesn't mean they should get let off raking rebuys.

If you caught a mate of yours in bed with your wife, and he says 'but I helped you fix your car last week' are you going to say 'fair enough'?

[RED-DOG]

Grosvenor rake the pot in a re-buy, but they add money too, fair enough. Next week some other venue rapes the pot in a re-buy without adding money, that's the problem.

PS- I spotted the typo but it seemed appropriate to leave it in.

[gatso]

ok lets work on a 200k prizepool- they will be taking 10k in "rake" and adding 25k. A better way of doing this PR wise wouldve been to add 15k and charge no rake but the bean counters obviously didnt want to do this. Its still another "added money" event. As for gats thinking grosvenor do nothing for poker in the UK I would point him to the figures present at the GUKPT festivals- where else can you play on a monthly basis for a 300k+ prizepool? They add money to events and still get slated- they really can't win can they?

Not raking rebuys is a very very easy way not to get slated.

I think Gatso's point was that just because Grosvenor have done good stuff for poker in the UK in the past doesn't mean they should get let off raking rebuys.

If you caught a mate of yours in bed with your wife, and he says 'but I helped you fix your car last week' are you going to say 'fair enough'?

this

[Karabiner]

Now if everyone agreed not to rebuy.....

[boldie]

ok lets work on a 200k prizepool- they will be taking 10k in "rake" and adding 25k. A better way of doing this PR wise wouldve been to add 15k and charge no rake but the bean counters obviously didnt want to do this. Its still another "added money" event. As for gats thinking grosvenor do nothing for poker in the UK I would point him to the figures present at the GUKPT festivals- where else can you play on a monthly basis for a 300k+ prizepool? They add money to events and still get slated- they really can't win can they?

Not raking rebuys is a very very easy way not to get slated.

I think Gatso's point was that just because Grosvenor have done good stuff for poker in the UK in the past doesn't mean they should get let off raking rebuys.

If you caught a mate of yours in bed with your wife, and he says 'but I helped you fix your car last week' are you going to say 'fair enough'?

this

+1 raking the rebuys is nothing short of disgraceful IMO.

[AlrightJack]

25k is being added. Way less than 25k will be raked. There is no reg fee. Disgraceful. I feel ashamed...

[PocketLady]

But they aren't raking the rebuys exactly.  The money that comes from the rebuy sats is what forms the pot for the ME.  There's no way they can just rake the original buyins because they won't make anywhere near enough money to cover their costs.  I know as players we don't want to be ripped off, but Grosvenor aren't a charity, they are a business.

[AndrewT]

But they aren't raking the rebuys exactly.  The money that comes from the rebuy sats is what forms the pot for the ME.  There's no way they can just rake the original buyins because they won't make anywhere near enough money to cover their costs.  I know as players we don't want to be ripped off, but Grosvenor aren't a charity, they are a business.

Does this make sense to anyone else?

[PocketLady]

But they aren't raking the rebuys exactly.  The money that comes from the rebuy sats is what forms the pot for the ME.  There's no way they can just rake the original buyins because they won't make anywhere near enough money to cover their costs.  I know as players we don't want to be ripped off, but Grosvenor aren't a charity, they are a business.

Does this make sense to anyone else?

Say I have 5 rebuys and dont qualify, then the money I've contributed will be raked at 5% but I haven't paid any juice on the satellite, so effectively I've paid no reg fee at all.

The players who qualify may pay 5%, but they get the benefit of the 25k added.

[AndrewT]

But they aren't raking the rebuys exactly.  The money that comes from the rebuy sats is what forms the pot for the ME.  There's no way they can just rake the original buyins because they won't make anywhere near enough money to cover their costs.  I know as players we don't want to be ripped off, but Grosvenor aren't a charity, they are a business.

Does this make sense to anyone else?

Say I have 5 rebuys and dont qualify, then the money I've contributed will be raked at 5% but I haven't paid any juice on the satellite, so effectively I've paid no reg fee at all.

*faints*

[tikay]

25k is being added. Way less than 25k will be raked. There is no reg fee. Disgraceful. I feel ashamed...

No you dont -  nor should you, as the architect of so much that is good in UK Tourney Poker.

But the point is, the worry - well, my worry - with raking Prize Pools is where it will end. 5%, 10%, what next?

It's an important, & serious, point, & debate, & I'm honestly hoping to understand the thinking behind it. Would you be so good as to outline the official thinking, please? And, hopefully, re-assure old farts like me that this is not, as I have repeatedly suggested, the thin end of the wedge? We worried it would spread to rebuys - now it has. It's a legit concern, Jonathan.

By the bye, hope you have recovered from your recent ailment.

[boldie]

But they aren't raking the rebuys exactly.  The money that comes from the rebuy sats is what forms the pot for the ME.  There's no way they can just rake the original buyins because they won't make anywhere near enough money to cover their costs.  I know as players we don't want to be ripped off, but Grosvenor aren't a charity, they are a business.

Does this make sense to anyone else?

Say I have 5 rebuys and dont qualify, then the money I've contributed will be raked at 5% but I haven't paid any juice on the satellite, so effectively I've paid no reg fee at all.

You're very very wrong there.

Say there is a normal 50 +5 rebuy tourney (10% of the buy in is reg fee). now have 1 buy in and 4  rebuys and rake them all at 5% 250£ x 5% =  12.50.

see?

[PocketLady]

But they aren't raking the rebuys exactly.  The money that comes from the rebuy sats is what forms the pot for the ME.  There's no way they can just rake the original buyins because they won't make anywhere near enough money to cover their costs.  I know as players we don't want to be ripped off, but Grosvenor aren't a charity, they are a business.

Does this make sense to anyone else?

Say I have 5 rebuys and dont qualify, then the money I've contributed will be raked at 5% but I haven't paid any juice on the satellite, so effectively I've paid no reg fee at all.

You're very very wrong there.

Say there is a normal 50 +5 rebuy tourney (10% of the buy in is reg fee). now have 1 buy in and 4  rebuys and rake them all at 5% 250£ x 5% =  12.50.

see?

SO we're worried about losing £7.50 in a tournament with 25k added money? What if I only have one rebuy, then I'm paying the standard £5, if I have no rebuys then I'm only paying £2.50. The disadvantage is if you have to have loads of rebuys...but it is still outweighed by the amount of money added.

[tikay]

But they aren't raking the rebuys exactly.  The money that comes from the rebuy sats is what forms the pot for the ME.  There's no way they can just rake the original buyins because they won't make anywhere near enough money to cover their costs.  I know as players we don't want to be ripped off, but Grosvenor aren't a charity, they are a business.

Well, yes, I am afraid they are doing exactly that!

There's no contention at all as to your final sentence though, 100% agreed, but that has no relevence to the subject, with due respect. I/we have no issue - at all - with Grosvenor earning enough from Poker to make it a more viable proposition (£ per sq ft of floor space earned) for them than, say, slots. But I'd much prefer they levied it via up-front Reg Fees. And if those Reg Fees - as a % - rise over time, so be it - because we can see it clearly.

There is no issue at all with Grosvenor having the right to earn enough out of poker to continue running it. It's just how they do it.