What would you do?

[OnTheCards]

I was playing in a tournament day before yesterday, holdem NL. I had about 25k at the time and 7 people were left, 6 payed.

I was sitting with pocket 8's. I seem to remember being dealer and pumping it up pre flop 3x BB to which i had two callers.

Flop came


SB raises and BB re-raises all in (i wouldnt be knocked out but severely battered if i lost.
Both players didn't really know what they were doing and both amateur players. So I put them on a range of hands.

What to do?

[NoflopsHomer]

I'd make my hand analysis posts less vague.

Seriously, you can't expect anyone to give you any decent advice without chips counts, blinds, payouts, table image, average stack size, etc...

[Sunday8pm]

I'd make my hand analysis posts less vague.

Seriously, you can't expect anyone to give you any decent advice without chips counts, blinds, payouts, table image, average stack size, etc...

Hes still pretty new to getting tourney hands analysed mate. Like NFH says Pete...Explain a little bit more about the hand preferably with a hand history.

[OnTheCards]

was at a live game so i can't remember much.
but i'll try and fill you in.

6/7 players left - NL Hold'em - Amateurs playing

Button - Me 25k
SB - Knows how to play - Loose-Aggressive - 45k
BB - Has no clue, fishy fishy - 20k

Blinds - 1000/2000

I raise to 6000
SB Calls
BB Calls

FLOP
    

POT = 18000

SB bet 6k (was a small bet)
BB - shove

Pot = 44000

Action on me....[8, 8]

[PocketLady]

I'm passing in this spot I definitely.  The SB has bet out and the BB has reraised.  As you are next to act you have no idea whether the SB behind you will call.  The BB may not have you covered but the SB certainly does.  And as you have also said there were 7 left, and only 6 get paid.  You would be taking a big risk on the bubble of a tournament.  You only have 6k invested in this pot so it's not a great loss to fold when there's not much you are beating here.  I would be very very wary of a bet and a shove on the bubble, especially when you don't even have a hand as strong as top pair.  Even if as you say the SB is LAG and the BB doesn't know how to play I still think there are better spots.

[OnTheCards]

Thanks for your comment.

Folding is a very viable option. Especially around the bubble.
Think for one minute if you weren't around the bubble. SB has put a weak raise in and BB a player with no poker knowledge pushes. This push could be a steal of the small bet? When it happened A7 looked very fitting as the BB's hand, any ace to an amateur is a good hand hit or not. If i had position on SB and saw a fold it probably would have gone in with no hesitation.

[Longy]

Shove preflop with 12.5bbs and 88 on the button. It is an inexploitable* shove.

As played i would chuck them in the muck, even though you could conceivably be ahead as you have suggested. You are behind far too often to make calling correct imo.


* Inexploitable meaning that no matter how loose or tight they call, you will still be making money long term.

[Sunday8pm]

Shove preflop with 12.5bbs and 88 on the button. It is an inexploitable* shove.

As played i would chuck them in the muck, even though you could conceivably be ahead as you have suggested. You are behind far too often to make calling correct imo.


* Inexploitable meaning that no matter how loose or tight they call, you will still be making money long term.

This would be my move i think.

[jezza777]

I agree it is an unexploitable shove with the 88.

However given that you have a clear advantage against the field I have no problem with the way you played it. If you only play preflop against these guys then you dont give yourself the opportunity to bring your edge into play.

Of course it can be argued that we make money from our opponents mistakes and that shipping pre provides them with the opportunity to make a big one. I think in this particular tourney you have the opportunity to be more careful, avoid marginal races and dampen the varience down.

On the flop you have to call v one oppo but against 2 you can pass.

Jezza

[PocketLady]

Thanks for your comment.

Folding is a very viable option. Especially around the bubble.
Think for one minute if you weren't around the bubble. SB has put a weak raise in and BB a player with no poker knowledge pushes. This push could be a steal of the small bet? When it happened A7 looked very fitting as the BB's hand, any ace to an amateur is a good hand hit or not. If i had position on SB and saw a fold it probably would have gone in with no hesitation.

Yeah I think that is one of the most important factors to consider when deciding your action here.  If the SB is out of the pot then it's a much different situation.  I think as some others have said, I'm probably calling in a heads up situation here between me and the BB.  But like you say, in this situation you haven't got position on the SB any more, he has you covered, and you have no idea whether he is calling or not.  You don't have enough to reraise him out of the pot even if you wanted to.

[OnTheCards]

Thanks for all your advice. I did fold the hand in the end.

On a side note when the right time to move up levels?
I have a BR of $70 and play $3 level. At the $3 level I get a good ROI. But my $6 ROI is in the minus. I haven't dared to go any higher.
What kind of bank roll do you guys think i should be aiming for to move up and to what level. I play FT btw $2 & $3.

[PocketLady]

Did the SB call?

I'm assuming that you are talking about sngs and not mtts?  The general rule of thumb for sit and gos is that one sit and go should be no more than 5% of your bankroll, or you should have around 20-30 buyins for the level you play at.  So for $2 or $3 sit and gos you should be looking to have around $40 to $90.  If you are wanting to stick to strict bankroll management I would stick at this level until you have maybe $100 - $150 and then move up to the $5 sngs.  If you find yourself losing at this level then drop back down to playing $3 sngs until you have built your roll back up again.  That's what I would do anyway.

For MTTs the general guideline is around 50 buyins for the level you are playing at, because you will cash less often and the variance will be greater.

[Royal Flush]

For MTTs the general guideline is around 50 buyins for the level you are playing at, because you will cash less often and the variance will be greater.

plz be rolled deeper than this for multis, 50 is too small for sng's let alone multi's

[AlexMartin]

For MTTs the general guideline is around 50 buyins for the level you are playing at, because you will cash less often and the variance will be greater.

plz be rolled deeper than this for multis, 50 is too small for sng's let alone multi's

how deep should mtt roll be u think? 200b..300bi?

[Longy]

For MTTs the general guideline is around 50 buyins for the level you are playing at, because you will cash less often and the variance will be greater.

plz be rolled deeper than this for multis, 50 is too small for sng's let alone multi's

QFT, 100 buyins is the standard for sngs these days though you can get away with 50 at the lower levels, though the varience is all ROI dependent. I know 200 buyins is now considered more standard for high stakes sngs.