ruling please

[gatso]

live FT, the player involved has a huge stack, a few hundred individual chips of various denominations.

he picks up a handful of chips without counting them out and throws them in the middle, stack was dirty so there's a mix of colour thrown in. the amount is unclear but it's obvious that it's quite a bit more than a min raise.

before the dealer has a chance to count out the raise the player grabs another handful and throws them on top. obviously the initial raise should play but we now have no way of knowing how much that was.

how do you rule on this as TD?

[Wardonkey]

I'd allow the minimum raise only.

There's no way to determine the initial raise and it stops him from being such an arse in future.

[gatso]

I'd allow the minimum raise only.

There's no way to determine the initial raise and it stops him from being such an arse in future.

but that penalises anyone sitting behind him with a big hand surely

[kinboshi]

I'm with Wardonkey.  There's no way of determining the initial bet, so the minimum raise is the fairest to the rest at the table.  He should also be warned not to do it again under threat of being moved to the car park.

[gatso]

ok, let me change it slightly.

1st handful of chips goes in, obv a big raise. next player to act has already looked down at KK and immediately announces call before the first player throws another load of chips on top.

surely it cannot be correct now to make it a min raise? that is certainly not fair to the 2nd player

[Photurian]

Supposed the best he can hope for is min raise but if he didnt say anything then its only a call, no matter how many chips he places in the middle if he dont say raise he dont get one.

[Photurian]

ok, let me change it slightly.

1st handful of chips goes in, obv a big raise. next player to act has already looked down at KK and immediately announces call before the first player throws another load of chips on top.

surely it cannot be correct now to make it a min raise? that is certainly not fair to the 2nd player

I seen a similar situation, the player acting this way had his betting privaledges removed for the hand and he could only call or fold.

[gatso]

Supposed the best he can hope for is min raise but if he didnt say anything then its only a call, no matter how many chips he places in the middle if he dont say raise he dont get one.

this would surely only apply if you were playing a made up game in made up land.

the fact that it's a raise is probably the only bit that isn't in doubt here

[turny]

minimum raise and a warning imo

[Photurian]

live FT, the player involved has a huge stack, a few hundred individual chips of various denominations.

he picks up a handful of chips without counting them out and throws them in the middle, stack was dirty so there's a mix of colour thrown in. the amount is unclear but it's obvious that it's quite a bit more than a min raise.

before the dealer has a chance to count out the raise the player grabs another handful and throws them on top. obviously the initial raise should play but we now have no way of knowing how much that was.

how do you rule on this as TD?

Supposed the best he can hope for is min raise but if he didnt say anything then its only a call, no matter how many chips he places in the middle if he dont say raise he dont get one.

this would surely only apply if you were playing a made up game in made up land.

the fact that it's a raise is probably the only bit that isn't in doubt here

OK gats but when reading original post it was not fully clear that he had announced raise but if we are to assume he did then fine.

Thanks for the sarc.

[gatso]

OK gats but when reading original post it was not fully clear that he had announced raise but if we are to assume he did then fine.

Thanks for the sarc.

he hasn't announced raise. that has no bearing on whether it's a raise or not as he has clearly put in more than a min raise

I do think that the min raise and a warning is the only way to go here but can't get away from the fact that that is seriously unfair to the player in the 2nd example who called the big raise only to find out that it's now a min raise and they've given away the strength of their hand

[Photurian]

well surely if play has been pulled back to the wally, then the player who called would be able to reraise? seeing as his action was to call a much higher bet.

But yeah it sucks that he has given away the strength of his hand and now the wally can fold, tough one.

Take all his chips to the middle and send him to the car park!

[Rod Paradise]

OK gats but when reading original post it was not fully clear that he had announced raise but if we are to assume he did then fine.

Thanks for the sarc.

he hasn't announced raise. that has no bearing on whether it's a raise or not as he has clearly put in more than a min raise

I do think that the min raise and a warning is the only way to go here but can't get away from the fact that that is seriously unfair to the player in the 2nd example who called the big raise only to find out that it's now a min raise and they've given away the strength of their hand

How does anyone know how many chips to return if he is held to a min raise? Is the dealer going to have to go through all the action to that point?

I'd say min raise and all else in the pot is his lookout - tough - thank god I'm not a TD though.

[Karabiner]

If the dealer has an approximate idea of how much the first raise was that amount could then be allowed to go.

Definitely should get a warning to stop acting like a cock

[Photurian]

If the dealer has an approximate idea of how much the first raise was that amount could then be allowed to go.

Definitely should get a warning to stop acting like a cock

+1 +1 +1