ruling

[gatso]

This has to be a wind up? You can't really be serious?

1. Cards are in the muck - end of.

Errr hand was tabled - end of.

I can't see any reason why you shouldnt be awarded this pot, you tabled the best hand other players saw it and no further action has taken place.

because they've gone on a break and according to TD only  1 other player saw cf table kj. how does he know that cf hasn't gone outside and got his mate to agree to a story? not in any way suggesting that that happened but there's no way the td can know otherwise.

yes the cards were left on the table but they're easy enough to switch around when cf is the dealer

[Royal Flush]

This has to be a wind up? You can't really be serious?

1. Cards are in the muck - end of.

Errr hand was tabled - end of.

I can't see any reason why you shouldnt be awarded this pot, you tabled the best hand other players saw it and no further action has taken place.

because they've gone on a break and according to TD only  1 other player saw cf table kj. how does he know that cf hasn't gone outside and got his mate to agree to a story? not in any way suggesting that that happened but there's no way the td can know otherwise.

yes the cards were left on the table but they're easy enough to switch around when cf is the dealer

Was it not the case he hadn't left the room?

[gatso]

Was it not the case he hadn't left the room?

no

and we go on break.

A couple of minutes later the light bulb clicks in my head and I go "hang on a minute...".

I inform the TD of what has happened and if anything can be done.

[MANTIS01]

I don't think you should use your energy to make a fuss about the pot. We know poker rules are pretty vague and situational, and a good case can be made for both sides here. Use your energy to make a fuss about not knowing how to read a board properly. Not knowing where you're at in a hand is bad and will cost you a lot more in the future than 1 pot that's already gone. The pot lost is your schooling fee. It was a mistake, fair enough. Don't make them!

[Cf]

This has to be a wind up? You can't really be serious?

1. Cards are in the muck - end of.

Errr hand was tabled - end of.

I can't see any reason why you shouldnt be awarded this pot, you tabled the best hand other players saw it and no further action has taken place.

because they've gone on a break and according to TD only  1 other player saw cf table kj. how does he know that cf hasn't gone outside and got his mate to agree to a story? not in any way suggesting that that happened but there's no way the td can know otherwise.

yes the cards were left on the table but they're easy enough to switch around when cf is the dealer

Was it not the case he hadn't left the room?

I had not left the card room.

The interesting thing here, is that a few people on this board, and a lot of people at the casino took the train of thought: "hand was mucked, that's the end of it", even if there was footage/proof of the hand. I don't understand this. Obviously, in this case the testimony of 1/2 players was not enough, which I accept. But it was the thought that even if something could be done, it shouldn't be, that interested me.

[doubleup]

To OP Your initial post didn't make it clear whether you're hand was tabled or not and wasn't clear about the time difference.  If it was directly after the hand and all that was required was that your tabled hand was turned up again, you might have a point.

[AndrewT]

To OP Your initial post didn't make it clear whether you're hand was tabled or not and wasn't clear about the time difference.  If it was directly after the hand and all that was required was that your tabled hand was turned up again, you might have a point.

His post did actually make it clear what happened.

I table KJ
SB tables J2 and announces 2 pair

I fail to read that I have 2 pair with a K kicker and give him the pot. I then turn both sets of hands face down, along with the flop and put it in the muck.

He tabled his hand, his opponent tabled his hand, OP awarded the pot to his opponent, OP turned both hands face down and mucked them both.

There really can be no comeback here unless the opponent agrees he was wrongly awarded the pot.

Myself, the other player in the pot, and a third player at the table confirmed my hand. However, the villian would not, saying he didn't see my hand, only that he announced 2 pair and was awarded the pot.

Game over.

[BulldozerD]

so that's what all the fuss was about then. Wondered what folk were going on about, during and after the break.

fwiw i think you have no entitlement to the pot but i am by no means a rules guru

[Hairydude]

Surely the hands dead as they were folded face down- too much of a chance for players to angleshoot otherwise

[Cf]

Surely the hands dead as they were folded face down- too much of a chance for players to angleshoot otherwise

Well no. It was specifically tabled face up.

To all those who say it was dead... taking into account the fact that no hand had taken place after this one, assume there was a camera over the table which caught the hand, what do you think should be done then. And why?

[Royal Flush]

To OP Your initial post didn't make it clear whether you're hand was tabled or not and wasn't clear about the time difference.  If it was directly after the hand and all that was required was that your tabled hand was turned up again, you might have a point.

His post did actually make it clear what happened.

I table KJ
SB tables J2 and announces 2 pair

I fail to read that I have 2 pair with a K kicker and give him the pot. I then turn both sets of hands face down, along with the flop and put it in the muck.

He tabled his hand, his opponent tabled his hand, OP awarded the pot to his opponent, OP turned both hands face down and mucked them both.

There really can be no comeback here unless the opponent agrees he was wrongly awarded the pot.

Myself, the other player in the pot, and a third player at the table confirmed my hand. However, the villian would not, saying he didn't see my hand, only that he announced 2 pair and was awarded the pot.

Game over.

Err once a hand is tabled it can't be mucked, that is the whole point of tabling a hand! If there is an error then it can be corrected up to the next hand.

[AndrewT]

But how can the hand be verified?

It was a self-deal game, there's no confirmation OP had the winning hand (he says 2 players say he had KJ, whereas on another forum the TD says only 1 player agreed with him).

The cards are now in the muck - the OP can't starts pulling cards out in the hope he managed to get a King and a Jack.

I really see no way in which a reversal of this pot doesn't open up a whole world of cheating ('Mate, say I had KJ that last hand and I'll see you right').

To all those who say it was dead... taking into account the fact that no hand had taken place after this one, assume there was a camera over the table which caught the hand, what do you think should be done then. And why?

That's a different situation isn't it? If the hand can be independently verified, then there's scope for correction. There's no independent verification in your case.

Do you whine this much about every bad beat you inflict upon yourself?

[ariston]

Hand is tabled it speaks. If the pot is wrongly awarded to the non winning hand then it can be corrected before the next hand takes place. The dealer should be able to confirm the hands (kind of biased opinion seeing as the dealer was involved in the pot but sure others on the table could confirm the hands).

Guy who is trying to keep the pot when he knows he is beat is an angle shooter- a mistake was made so give the guy the pot, end of story.

[Grier78]

Hand is tabled it speaks. If the pot is rongly awarded to the non winning hand then it can be corrected before the next hand takes place. The dealer should be able to confirm the hands (kind of biased opinion seeing as the dealer was involved in the pot but sure others on the table could confirm the hands).

Guy who is trying to keep the pot when he knows he is beat is an angle shooter- a mistake was made so give the guy the pot, end of story.

Surely if any of the other players were paying attention to the cards as they were tabled at least one of them would say "err isn't the KJ the winning hand".

The OP himself shipped the pot to the other player, he made the mistake and should live with the consequences.

[ariston]

mistakes happen but they can be rectified before the next hand is played. If a hand is tabled it cannot then be mucked and declared dead and cards speak. Yes the other players on the table shouldve spotted it and I have indeed pointed errors out on many occasions (even ones where I have been awarded pots incorrectly).

imo the opponent in the hand knew what he was doing when he declared 2 pair and knew a mistake had been made. For him to try and then keep the pot once the error has been highlighted means he's an angle shooter.