Ruling please

[WarBwastard]

The action is on a player who is checking his cards without being too cautious about it and the player to his right who has just bet sees one of the cards (after he has bet though) and announces to the table that he's seen it. 

The player who's being careless with his cards has had a few beers and says, "well OK you've seen one you can see both" and lays both cards face up on the table for everyone to see and then starts to make his decision about whether to call, raise, fold or throw up.

Is his hand now dead as he has intentionally exposed his hand? 

It's a card club not a casino, but the idea is to make the games resemble a casino tournament as closely as possible. 

[turny]

hand dead imo

[celtic]

hand dead imo

can only call or fold for the rest of the hand as far as i am aware.

[WarBwastard]

hand dead imo

can only call or fold for the rest of the hand as far as i am aware.

That was what I decided, although I thought that only applied when the hand is exposed accidentally, not when it's a p*ssed bloke being a prat..so I felt I should have just ruled it dead. 

[turny]

hand dead imo

can only call or fold for the rest of the hand as far as i am aware.

That was what I decided, although I thought that only applied when the hand is exposed accidentally, not when it's a p*ssed bloke being a prat..so I felt I should have just ruled it dead. 

exactly, far from an accident so hand dead.

[Royal Flush]

Time penalty

[phatomch]

if I read it right the bloke is facing a bet, his action has been to show his cards so without any verbal decleration of what he is doing , he has exposed his cards, so hand is dead.

[RioRodent]

I agree with Flushy and much prefer the TDA ruling...

7	Penalties and Disqualification	A penalty MAY be invoked if a player exposes any card with action pending....
31	Exposing Cards	A player who exposes his cards with action pending may incur a penalty, but will not have a dead hand. The penalty will begin at the end of the hand

Had the player, who had bet, seen both cards AND knew he had the hand crushed would he have been so keen to reveal he had seen any cards? Probaby not.

[gatso]

if I read it right the bloke is facing a bet, his action has been to show his cards so without any verbal decleration of what he is doing , he has exposed his cards, so hand is dead.

yet another case of a grosvenor rule differing from the rest of the world?

hand is never dead

tda rules as above

wsop rule '50. A player exposing his or her cards with action pending may incur a penalty, but will not have a dead hand. The penalty will begin at the end of the hand. All players at the table are entitled to see the exposed card(s), if requested'

robert's rules also the same

[TightEnd]

Its not a Grosvenor rule

At Luton, deleiberate exposing of ones cards is not "hand declared dead" but possible time penalites and the player can make no action through the course of the hand..check/call only

[relaedgc]

You can only check or call for the rest of the hand, if I recall.

[gatso]

so where's your 'hand dead' rule from then photomch?

[turny]

if I read it right the bloke is facing a bet, his action has been to show his cards so without any verbal decleration of what he is doing , he has exposed his cards, so hand is dead.

yet another case of a grosvenor rule differing from the rest of the world?

hand is never dead

tda rules as above

wsop rule '50. A player exposing his or her cards with action pending may incur a penalty, but will not have a dead hand. The penalty will begin at the end of the hand. All players at the table are entitled to see the exposed card(s), if requested'

robert's rules also the same

there r no set rules....

was asked to give a ruling imo "hand dead" thats warning enough imo

[phatomch]

thats waht i think should happen, not set rule anywhere its what it used to be at grosvenor until we changed last year

[gatso]

if I read it right the bloke is facing a bet, his action has been to show his cards so without any verbal decleration of what he is doing , he has exposed his cards, so hand is dead.

yet another case of a grosvenor rule differing from the rest of the world?

hand is never dead

tda rules as above

wsop rule '50. A player exposing his or her cards with action pending may incur a penalty, but will not have a dead hand. The penalty will begin at the end of the hand. All players at the table are entitled to see the exposed card(s), if requested'

robert's rules also the same

there r no set rules....

was asked to give a ruling imo "hand dead" thats warning enough imo

what do you mean there are no set rules? the 2 major sets of rules used worldwide as well as wsop rules all specifically state that the hand is not dead. there's no ambiguity here