just need opinions

[Royal Flush]

i tend to avoid playing the check call line in these type of situations oop without a read on my opponent, thats why i favour to take the lead out or check raise approach on the flop so i can define my opponents possible hands better.

each to there own as they say..

You don't define his hand though that's the problem.

[noble1]

He has no read on me so when i check raised, all i thought - what was he putting me on?..I'm pretty certain he has to put me on top pair,flush draw,2 pair or bluff, even if he just smooth calls me , my hand range for him is narrowed a lot.If i lead and he calls, the hands he does that with are narrowed... if i check call here, i still have not defined his hand at all {the range is a lot wider].

i think there is more chance of defining his hand on the flop now than on the turn with these type of boards..

by check calling all i achieve is a bit of pot control and if he is on a draw,he is getting it cheap...

[Royal Flush]

You don't need to define his hand though, you have top 2.

Any hand that plays to a check raise will play if you check call then lead the turn.

[noble1]

on this flop texture i had in this situation - 2 clubs/straight draws and i am oop if i check call and the turn card is an ace, king, nine, eight, or a club.. i'm gonna be in a pickle as the villain that has position could represent with any 2 cards and again on the river.
Because i prefer to lead or check raise these situations, on the turn my decision as to what to do is a little easier.
Without reads on me, even for him to bluff call my check raise is doubtful ish [i know some are capable without reads ]
Also if i lead or check raise the flop i also get the benefit of building a pot with top 2 pair.

[GreekStein]

lol Noble

[noble1]

lol Noble

hmm good feed back,, i am not convinced that a check call is best in this spot on the this type of flop,if i check call and the turn is a blank and i check call again what on earth do i do on the river? check call again? it just seems to me that i'm hoping that i have the best hand and will lose more chips by taking a check call line as i have no idea where i am in the hand..

it is a deep stack tourny greekstein not a 1500 chips fast structure, i can afford to play the streets or fold if i so wish and try
to gain chips in position etc etc  so lol noble is no help,if you agree check calling is best then convince me why it is?

[GreekStein]

I gave my opinion earlier on in the thread anyway but the 'lol' was because of your relentlessness. You have asked for opinions and been given feedback - that's what the PHA is for. You have questioned the feedback - fine. The opinions have been justified and you keep fighting them - do you really want a critique of the way the hand was played or was the whole point of the thread to show us that you laid down top two in a FTOPS to be shown top set?

When I post on here I want to understand the thinking of other players and the lines they take. Without wanting to massage any egos, some of the best online players in the country have posted on this thread and to me it still seems like you won't accept they are probably right. I would.

Anyway, now that my 'lol' is explained I'll briefly summise my thoughts again on the hand:

We call a mid position raise and flop two. If he's coolering us with QQ or JJ he should get our money. I aint folding top two on this flop. So often he shows up with AK/AJ/A10/K10/910 (combo draws) or an overplayed AQ AA or KK. He might also have the same hand as us. We also have a Q and a J making a set so much more of a cooler.

Against an unknown villain why would we flat here and play the turn out of position and be scared by half the deck that hits the turn? I know we're deep and it hurts more to stack off here with so many BB's is he does have a set but you should see it as an unavoidable scenario.

[noble1]

ty greekstein for a good reply.
not fighting the opinions , i just want to explore different ways to approach the actual hand that i played...the only thing i do not agree with is me stacking off 2 pair in a deep mtt this early..every other opinions has helped me think of different lines to take and how some others view it. Again many thanks..

regards
noble

[kinboshi]

Without wanting to massage any egos, some of the best online players in the country have posted on this thread

Thank Cos

[GreekStein]

Without wanting to massage any egos, some of the best online players in the country have posted on this thread

Thank Cos

lol

[Royal Flush]

lol Noble

hmm good feed back,, i am not convinced that a check call is best in this spot on the this type of flop,if i check call and the turn is a blank and i check call again what on earth do i do on the river? check call again? it just seems to me that i'm hoping that i have the best hand and will lose more chips by taking a check call line as i have no idea where i am in the hand..

it is a deep stack tourny greekstein not a 1500 chips fast structure, i can afford to play the streets or fold if i so wish and try
to gain chips in position etc etc  so lol noble is no help,if you agree check calling is best then convince me why it is?

If you can afford to play the streets why are you trying to win the hand on the flop?

I didn't suggest c/c c/c c/c i said c/c then lead.

[AlexMartin]

lol Noble

hmm good feed back,, i am not convinced that a check call is best in this spot on the this type of flop,if i check call and the turn is a blank and i check call again what on earth do i do on the river? check call again? it just seems to me that i'm hoping that i have the best hand and will lose more chips by taking a check call line as i have no idea where i am in the hand..

it is a deep stack tourny greekstein not a 1500 chips fast structure, i can afford to play the streets or fold if i so wish and try
to gain chips in position etc etc  so lol noble is no help,if you agree check calling is best then convince me why it is?

If you can afford to play the streets why are you trying to win the hand on the flop?

I didn't suggest c/c c/c c/c i said c/c then lead.

noble ur hand is so huge u cant fk it up. except by raise folding.

[noble1]

lol Noble

hmm good feed back,, i am not convinced that a check call is best in this spot on the this type of flop,if i check call and the turn is a blank and i check call again what on earth do i do on the river? check call again? it just seems to me that i'm hoping that i have the best hand and will lose more chips by taking a check call line as i have no idea where i am in the hand..

it is a deep stack tourny greekstein not a 1500 chips fast structure, i can afford to play the streets or fold if i so wish and try
to gain chips in position etc etc  so lol noble is no help,if you agree check calling is best then convince me why it is?

If you can afford to play the streets why are you trying to win the hand on the flop?

I didn't suggest c/c c/c c/c i said c/c then lead.

i'm not dismissing that as a line that i could of took flushy i honestly thought that my top 2 pair were best [initially]and if i were to get any value out of it oop a lead or check raise would be of more value than check calling flop lead turn for the reasons i mentioned in other posts [if villain had AQ AJ KQ KJ KT 9T or a flush draw]
How would you perceive the check raise? to much? should i go for a smaller re-raise? i still like to try and define my opponents hand better but would villain 3bet bluff this odd amount here with no read/history on me? i don't think villain would get out of line here would he? [the play is generally quite solid early doors in these buy ins]
I'm not fighting your opinions here guys i'm just interested in how you would perceive the check raise and if you think villain would 3bet like this light.

on this flop texture i had in this situation - 2 clubs/straight draws and i am oop if i check call and the turn card is an ace, king, nine, eight, or a club.. i'm gonna be in a pickle as the villain that has position could represent with any 2 cards and again on the river.
Because i prefer to lead or check raise these situations, on the turn my decision as to what to do is a little easier.
Without reads on me, even for him to bluff call my check raise is doubtful ish [i know some are capable without reads ]
Also if i lead or check raise the flop i also get the benefit of building a pot with top 2 pair.

[bolt pp]

this thread is fantastic